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None,it was quelled by taking her near stock on a leash then re-inforcing the NO until she understood. She now doesn't care about stock, no interest. That took around 3 mths. Unexpected things like hares bolting and ducks etc taking off took the rest of the time

How did you reinforce the No?

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there is middle ground and as far as I know 955 has something more suitable to sled work than field work so its fine to have a dog you can control where you let it off etc. I have a dog who wants to put an e collar on though she never does now the association is with work and walks, it got us both through a rebellious stage where she thought she knew best and the alternative was staying on the lead or getting a good thumping after the event. Believe me when I say shouting good girl and holding some doggy treats out would have made no difference to stopping her on hares and rabbits, having had her stop on the white line of an A road once that was the collar on. Now it never went above level 2 which on my leg is very mild but you can beep it first and I think it took twice to teach her that. We had done plenty of whistle work before and she was spot on in enclosed spaces and on a long lead but she knew when she wasn't on it.

They sort the problem while the dog is in the act, you haven't got to catch them to reprimand after the event so some things you can sort easily, the alternative was walks on the lead and not coming shooting, this then meant the problem was pretty much sorted by the time she came beating and shooting and bearing in mind I beat on estates with lots of hares and deer the potential for issues is very high, and she is now spot on and touch wood has never run in.

Thumping isn't something I've had to resort to but I know I have seen a lot of very good trainers and triallers have to resort to it with pig headed dogs and the issue you have is if you do it once properly you may well not need to do it again but if you want to work a dog off the lead it can't know best because the risks for the dog as much as anything else. Obviously you hope you never have to resort to it but with working dogs they do have to be up to a certain standard as you are working with their instincts and also very much against them at times. The ultimate thing is pets you can treat with kiddy gloves and accept it will take months and years to get to being able to let them off but workers you can't.

I admire your honesty .......... you're still a southern puff but an honest one :)

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To beat a dog is an admission that the handler is a complete imbecile who should not be let near an living animal. Dogs never fail, it is the human which is failing, due to simple ignorance or laziness, and more usually both.

 

Some dogs do fail !

 

There are some dogs that will never be what you want them to be but that can not always be blamed on the trainer.

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By pointing and eye contact, she was being trained to eye contact from the start and she now knows if I point to my eyes she has to take notice

 

You train your dog by pointing to your eyes ? ?

 

Could this be why it took a year and a half to get it to stop chasing stock ?

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To beat a dog is an admission that the handler is a complete imbecile who should not be let near an living animal. Dogs never fail, it is the human which is failing, due to simple ignorance or laziness, and more usually both.

 

 

So you're are saying that most top trialers are failing?. If you think that they get to where they are with positive training methods you're kidding yourself.

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You train your dog by pointing to your eyes ? ?

 

Could this be why it took a year and a half to get it to stop chasing stock ?

No, pointing to the eye gains eye contact with her and lets her know a command is going to be given.

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No, pointing to the eye gains eye contact with her and lets her know a command is going to be given.

I just say my dogs name or blow the stop whistle to achieve that.

 

If the dogs not looking at you, how will it know your pointing at your eye...

Edited by chrispti
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theres got to be more to it than just pointing to your eye :whistling:

 

 

2 of my dogs will stop and look in the direction of the shot/ bird/dummy etc , the other one is always watching me -- cant decide which is more of a pain the dog that marks perfectly or the dog that awaits your every command and does,nt mark

so to get that attention back i taught them to watch me , by spitting a treat into there mouths and useing the words watch me , over and over again .

Anyway i still cant see how this will teach it NO , with out chastising in some way

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I just say my dogs name or blow the stop whistle to achieve that.

 

If the dogs not looking at you, how will it know your pointing at your eye...

This is for close training, not distance training.

Distance training is done with vocal and hand signals.

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Can I ask what sort of dog you're training/trained?

 

Russ

Current dog is a Utonagan

 

I thought this thread was a wind up ?. It is isn't it?

Yup, a behaviourist with 15 years experience is absolutely wrong, I must have made it all up. I'll be sure to tell her next time I see her :whistling:

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A behaviourist without a working shooting dog I'd imagine

 

Never said the dog was being trained for shooting, and the principles are the same regardless.

 

Or are you suggesting that training is good for other dogs, but gundogs need a beating and that any behaviourist that doesn't have a gundog cannot work with them?

 

For what I use mine for, it is important that she responds better to silent signals (hence pointing to the eye etc) as its no good doing a wildlife survey if you are scaring everything away by shouting!

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This is for close training, not distance training.

Distance training is done with vocal and hand signals.

If you can control your dog at a distance with vocal and hand signals why do you have to point to your eye ,to let the dog know you are going to give it a command ,for close training????. It sounds plain daft to me.

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For what I use mine for, it is important that she responds better to silent signals (hence pointing to the eye etc) as its no good doing a wildlife survey if you are scaring everything away by shouting!

Oh I get it now, you are one of those that can give silent, long distance, vocal signals. :lol:

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If you can control your dog at a distance with vocal and hand signals why do you have to point to your eye ,to let the dog know you are going to give it a command ,for close training? ???. It sounds plain daft to me.

That would be because you don't understand so are looking to criticize instead!

 

I do a variety of work with the dog, sometimes I need to keep her close, sometimes I need to offer distance commands. With me so far?

 

Visual signals are an important part of when she is actually working with me, vocal commands are used on a day to day basis. Get it?

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OK, reading back maybe not explained too well.

 

When we are in the field (working), pointing to the eye gets her attention and lets her know we will be using visual signals only.

 

That focuses her attention on me so she doesn't miss what she is being told to do, does that make more sense?

 

An angled hand held up tells her to sit, a sweeping point to the ground tells her to lie down, a finger flicked out indicates I want her to find/look for something (usually accompanied by a vocal to tell her what to look for) and pointing at my feet is a recall command.

 

She responds to the usual vocal commands, but these are not generally appropriate in our working environment, as I say it just scares everything away.

 

Hope that makes it more clear :)

Edited by 955i
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Current dog is a Utonagan

 

Yup, a behaviourist with 15 years experience is absolutely wrong, I must have made it all up. I'll be sure to tell her next time I see her :whistling:

 

I'm not familiar with that breed, what are they used for?

 

As for behaviourists some are good some talk good, there's one not to far away gets loads of business as he talks like he knows his stuff but can't stop his dogs running off, go figure.

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Why choose a utonagan ?

 

Which is according to the blurb " a dog bred with no intended working purpose "

 

I do not need to get my dogs to get ready for a command as if they are close, they are looking at me anyway and i can point left right away etc.

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Why choose a utonagan ?

 

Which is according to the blurb " a dog bred with no intended working purpose "

 

I do not need to get my dogs to get ready for a command as if they are close, they are looking at me anyway and i can point left right away etc.

 

Because I wanted a Utonagan, do I need a better reason? She suits what I am looking for in a dog, and works very well with me. Why would I need a gundog, I don't do pheasants anymore and can do without one.

 

I'm not familiar with that breed, what are they used for?

 

As for behaviourists some are good some talk good, there's one not to far away gets loads of business as he talks like he knows his stuff but can't stop his dogs running off, go figure.

 

They are not particularly used for anything, they are a mix of German shepherd, Malamute and Husky, but the destructive traits of the last two have been bred out of them and they are intelligent, biddable and good around small animals and kids.

 

I know what you mean about trainers, there is one a few doors down from my friend who is kind of trading on here name as they are so close and she has to have a muzzle on her dog as she can't control it :no:

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I do not need to get my dogs to get ready for a command as if they are close, they are looking at me anyway and i can point left right away etc.

It is a procedure, if we do it this way every time there are no misunderstandings.

 

I would rather be long winded about it than her get it wrong through no fault of her own.

 

Also, when I am on clients land with them, it helps to show that she has a purpose and I'm not just taking the dog for a walk.

 

She also has Hi-Viz for when we are working.

Edited by 955i
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