Beaters Pay and HMRC

[ColinF]

If you pay beaters on your shoot, you have probably heard or read about the new HMRC payroll reporting rules known as RTI. These rules require employers to report payments made to casual workers to HMRC at the time, or before the payments are made.

 

I found this on the HMRC website:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/employee-starting/special-situations/temps/harvest-casuals.htm

 

Looks like if your beaters meet all of the following criteria:

• are taken on for one day or less, and
• are paid off at the end of that period, and
• have no contract for further employment

No tax needs to be deducted from their pay, but the payments still need to be reported to HMRC.

 

However, if each beater is paid less than the Lower Earnings Limit (currently £109 per week) and you have no other employees who are paid above this amount, no report needs to made to HMRC, you just need to keep details of the payments for 3 years.

 

So it looks like most small shoots won't be required to operate payrolls etc after all, although larger commercial type shoots will probably still be caught

 

 

 

 

[Beretta28g]

I doubt it, theyll just have multiple teams of beaters

 

That way none will Get paid more than £109 per week.

 

Round our way that would 4 days + beating. Not many shoots operate that kind of intensivity

Edited June 11, 2013 by Beretta28g

[Paul223]

How about ask the beaters to give you an invoice for beating, then tell them to pay the tax, claim tax relief on dog food, dog training equipment, shotgun shells for training, vets bills and insurance.

[the pigeon man]

It be classed as a "tip" though ?

[stumpy69]

How about ask the beaters to give you an invoice for beating, then tell them to pay the tax, claim tax relief on dog food, dog training equipment, shotgun shells for training, vets bills and insurance.

My accountant is looking into this I go beating on an estate usually 8 times in the year, but to do this I require my dog, as you say he needs trained, fed and taken to the vet. If it will work I will be getting tax relief on my main job

[Paul223]

Keep us informed, I take it your not self employed and the tax relief will be on your employed pay?

[masmiffy]

What about the beaters position on the money he 'earns' from beating?

Does that have to be declared on tax forms?

 

Also what about 'game' (rabbits and pigeons) sold to dealers by us that 'income' taxable?

Edited June 12, 2013 by masmiffy

[ColinF]

How about ask the beaters to give you an invoice for beating, then tell them to pay the tax, claim tax relief on dog food, dog training equipment, shotgun shells for training, vets bills and insurance.

The link above is purely from the shoots point of view and their obligations under the new payroll rules. No matter how you pay a beater whatever you pay them is taxable (even if you call it a tip) and its up to them to declare it.

[David BASC]

More info here: http://www.basc.org.uk/en/media/key_issues.cfm/cid/FB967EFA-77FD-4BEF-B1581BFF745B3344 its not a new tax, people have always been responsible for paying tax on income, its just a change on how that income is reported. Its now down the the employer to declare.

 

David

 

[norfolk dumpling]

Read the BASC bit but still confused - who will pay PAYE the shoot or me? And what about minimum wage as a tax expert for UCSW said this was a legal requirement ?? For my own part I'm not bothered about what I earn as perks nor than balance this but don't want shoots to fold because of this. Without better clarification many beaters may give up especially those where benefits may be affected.

[CharlieT]

Read the BASC bit but still confused - who will pay PAYE the shoot or me? And what about minimum wage as a tax expert for UCSW said this was a legal requirement ?? For my own part I'm not bothered about what I earn as perks nor than balance this but don't want shoots to fold because of this. Without better clarification many beaters may give up especially those where benefits may be affected.

 

This new procedure RTI (Real Time Information) has been introduced by HMRC making it compulsory for employers advise them electronically when a payment is made to an employee and the information employers must supply is Employee name, NI number and amount paid.

 

Unless you have some form of arrangement with your employer and HMRC, you must, as with all earnings, declare it to HMRC as you will be responsible for any income tax due. As you say it may also affect benefit entitlement.

 

As beating is an amount paid for a "job" rather than an hourly wage, it is outside the scope of minimum hourly pay. A great shame if the UCSW stick their nose in and stir it up over beaters pay as the losers will be the beaters and shoots.

[ColinF]

Read the BASC bit but still confused - who will pay PAYE the shoot or me? And what about minimum wage as a tax expert for UCSW said this was a legal requirement ?? For my own part I'm not bothered about what I earn as perks nor than balance this but don't want shoots to fold because of this. Without better clarification many beaters may give up especially those where benefits may be affected.

 

Have a look at this link and read the section headed "Employed for one day or less"

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/employee-starting/special-situations/temps/harvest-casuals.htm

 

As long as you meet the 3 criteria listed, the employer does not have to deduct tax under PAYE from payments made to you.

 

BUT the payments made to you are still taxable and it's your responsibility to report the income to HMRC.

 

This is nothing new and has been the case since about 1997 when HMRC made an agreement with the CLA.

 

The new RTI rules only change the position for employers, in particular the method and timing of reporting payments to HMRC. I believe that not all employers will have to report payments to HMRC, depending on what other employees they have. This is a bit of a grey area, but I am trying to get clarification on this point.

[norfolk dumpling]

I thought commercial shoots paid tax for all beaters, pickers-up etc on an assumed 20pc rate as one amount at end of tax year. The BASC link seems to concur with this. Now it appears they will pay us, provide details to HMRC of each person/each day and we have to account for all beaters wages and pay tax. Correct? This means the £25 (unchanged for 10 years) becomes £20 as a standard rate tax payer. It will affect benefits for others.

[CharlieT]

 

 

 

Unless you have some form of arrangement with your employer and HMRC, you must, as with all earnings, declare it to HMRC as you will be responsible for any income tax due. As you say it may also affect benefit entitlement.

 

 

 

 

I thought commercial shoots paid tax for all beaters, pickers-up etc on an assumed 20pc rate as one amount at end of tax year. The BASC link seems to concur with this. Now it appears they will pay us, provide details to HMRC of each person/each day and we have to account for all beaters wages and pay tax. Correct? This means the £25 (unchanged for 10 years) becomes £20 as a standard rate tax payer. It will affect benefits for others.

 

Some do, which is why I said the above. We have an arrangement to do exactly that but not all shoots will.

Beaters should ask the shoot what the tax position is.

[al4x]

I'm surprised a farmer of your means doesn't pay simply in cash from the back pocket CharlieT

[CharlieT]

I'm surprised a farmer of your means doesn't pay simply in cash from the back pocket CharlieT

The problem is:

 

Accumulating a sufficiently big enough slush fund.

The accounts showing the shoot produces no profit.

 

12-15 beaters + pickers up at £25/day x 30+ days is too much even for my back pocket

[al4x]

you need to make more hay

 

but indeed that many days its unavoidable

[ColinF]

I thought commercial shoots paid tax for all beaters, pickers-up etc on an assumed 20pc rate as one amount at end of tax year. The BASC link seems to concur with this. Now it appears they will pay us, provide details to HMRC of each person/each day and we have to account for all beaters wages and pay tax. Correct? This means the £25 (unchanged for 10 years) becomes £20 as a standard rate tax payer. It will affect benefits for others.

Some shoots will deduct tax, some won't. Either way, the payments are taxable. This hasn't changed, you should have always been reporting each £25 you have received, and paying tax on it at your tax rate. The only difference is, under the new rules the shoot may have to tell HMRC what they have paid you, and HMRC will have the ability to check if the extra income is being reported by you.

 

As CharlieT says, beaters will need to check with each shoot what the tax/payroll position is

[norfolk dumpling]

Spoke to one keeper -quite a big commercial shoot - and it seems the owner is going to pay gross @ minimum wage with beaters to sort out own tax/expenses. Good for me but may cause any on the tougher new benefits system.

 

Started collecting receipts @ Holkham yesterday - do the 4 dresses SWMBO count?

[ColinF]

Spoke to one keeper -quite a big commercial shoot - and it seems the owner is going to pay gross @ minimum wage with beaters to sort out own tax/expenses. Good for me but may cause any on the tougher new benefits system.

 

Started collecting receipts @ Holkham yesterday - do the 4 dresses SWMBO count?

Unfortunately, I don't think that you will be able to claim very much in the way of expenses.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31630.htm

 

This is a link to the HMRC's internal manual. This is where HMRC staff go for advice, so its written from their point of view, but you will get the general idea.

[leeds chimp]

so therefore can claim for boots, coats etc to do the job....I will be quids in then

[jasons gold]

so therefore can claim for boots, coats etc to do the job....I will be quids in then

Not exactly say you did ten days beating at 25 a day, and you bought a coat at say 250 the coat won't be allowable, but if you bought a pair of boots at 200 that will be. So what I am saying is your allowance can't be in excess of your profit, and your allowance can't be transferred to other employment

[CharlieT]

so therefore can claim for boots, coats etc to do the job....I will be quids in then

Hardly, unfortunately they won't refund you the difference. Just means you won't pay tax on your beaters pay.

[leeds chimp]

Not exactly say you did ten days beating at 25 a day, and you bought a coat at say 250 the coat won't be allowable, but if you bought a pair of boots at 200 that will be. So what I am saying is your allowance can't be in excess of your profit, and your allowance can't be transferred to other employment

not had that problem with my S/E door and event work??

[CharlieT]

not had that problem with my S/E door and event work??

That is because you are a self employed hit man.

 

The tax rules for employees are.............

• the amount to be deducted cannot exceed the amount of earnings from which it is to be deducted, see Section 329 ITEPA 2003
• Section 336 ITEPA 2003 imposes an objective test; an expense can only be deductible if it is one that each and every holder of an employment would be obliged to incur. A deductible expense must also be one that is "necessarily" imposed on the holder of the employment by the duties of that employment.