Load development process.........

[fieldwanderer]

I hope this hasn't been done to death, I can't find a lot in the search but I'm guessing it's like the rest of the internet; So much info there, it's difficult to find what you're looking for

 

Anyway, I'm sure there'll be more questions but here's a start;

 

I'm hoping my loading gear will arrive today and I'll then have everything I need - except the rifle

 

Obviously, I can't measure the o.a.l without the rifle but i'll have all these new "toys" that I'll want to try out. So, the idea's to make some cartridges up as long as possible or to max saami length and simply adjust the c.o.a.l when I get the rifle by seating the bullets slightly lower - so, getting to "play with my new toy" will also save me time when I get the rifle back.

 

But, something is puzzling me;

 

You load some ammunition up, various charge weights and shoot some groups, pick the best and then I assume you start tweaking the c.o.a.l to improve on your original best group. Have you not missed a huge amount of possibilities there - i.e. loads that would have shot much better with a different c.o.a.l? Or, does it simply not work like that?

 

I've got 100 new remington brass coming with what I've ordered, the thought was to full length resize it all and trim to a given length (slightly above minimum I guess) to ensure everything's consistent before going any further. What's the normal procedure with new brass?

[Beretta28g]

First thing is what caliber?

[fieldwanderer]

.22-250rem

[moor man]

Firstly Im no expert but I have successfully reloaded for my rifles. There are others on here with much more experience than me and Im sure they will be along shortly.

Start with different weight bullets in factory rounds, see which one your gun likes, this will depend on your barrel twist rate (google is your friend here) This will also allow you to get to know your rifle, after all you will need to shoot it consistantly well in order to assess your loads. When testing loads ensure the gun/scope is set up properly and the barrel is clean and dry, shoot off a rest to remove you from the equation as much as possible.

If you can find a local friendly reloader get him to cast an eye over your efforts good, and dont be afraid to ask!

Load some bullets in your chosen weight /style and reload into your neck sized once fired brass using a powder and primer you can find a recipe for. Start low and work up slowly,0.5 grains at a time, learn the signs of high pressure. Record your results for future reference.

Once you have tried and found a good load you can then tweak your c.o.a.l.

Re. new brass, check it, weigh it, trim if you want but it shouldnt need it. Discard any cases that weigh over heavy or light. Dont worry too much about c.o.a.l. as you dont have rifle yet!

WARNING!! This is not the end though and you will find yourself drawn into the mysterious and obsessive realm of reloading.......good luck and be safe.

 

Anyone....if I have missed out anything, my bad, feel free to correct add to this, cheers, moorman.

 

[Cambsman]

I started reloading recently and have learned a lot - mostly I have learned that there is much much more to learn!

Couple of thoughts to add to previous post above:

Worth checking your own rifle chamber with oal guage to get a start point for coal. Consider starting off with the bullets set back a bit from the lands/rifling. Load a dummy round (no primer or powder) and check it chambers ok.

Don't go too low on your start point for your loads - this can give problems with gas leakage (I think thats the right term) - most load sheets give a minimum for good reason.

Go slowly on your first loading sessions. Check, check and then check again! You really cannot be too careful. If you are not sure about something then stop and seek help - much better than having an accident.

Good luck and welcome to the madness..........

[casts_by_fly]

first things first- you have to narrow a couple variables to set before you start changing smaller variables. First the mandatory things that will have the bigger influence- bullets and powder, to a lesser extent primer. Presumably you picked the 22-250 for foxes and general vermin? Have you given thought to the bullets you'd maybe shoot? Probably best to pick one and start from there. A 55gr BT is a good place to start.

 

Primers- what can you get locally? They are a pain to ship, so go by what you can get locally.
Powder- Same as primers, but you have to consider the bullet. Go through some load recipies that are known 'good' loads and see what of that you can get locally.

 

Once you've narrowed those down a bit move onto the secondary variables with less influence. Plan to make some loads at standard OAL for the 22-250 and that bullet with different powder weights. if it is a known 'good' load and you've taken your time to do it right, you should have a decent shooting combo from the start. From there, see how the rifle reacts to different loads. I've found that for my guns, they tend to tighten up the hotter you load them until you hit pressure signs. Once you get a powder range that is working, then fine tune with seating depth. Since you're using a common cartridge and a common, well known good load then seating depth will be more fine tuning than major changes. Yes there are exceptions, but start simple. If you're not getting the accuracy you need, then you can start doing 5 factor design of experiments and blowing 150 bullets in a weekend on load development. You'll also get the nickname 'benchrest' at that point.

 

As a more concrete example, let's talk about my 223. I wanted to shoot light bullets fast as I had plenty of 40 gr v-max. I got a smoking deal on remington 7 1/2 primers so that set 2 of my variables. My additional constraint was that I wanted to same powder for my 223 and my 17 hornet. That lead me to H4198. I set my dies for a standard OAL and loaded from min to max in 0.5gr ingrements (5 each, so 25 rounds). I shot those into paper and over a chronograph The best results were max and I didn't have pressure signs so I proceeded a bit higher in 0.3 gr increments (3x each increment) to find my top load. When I found it I loaded a couple more to check groups and stuck on that charge. I did try seating depth and found that I could shring the groups from 3/4" to just over 1/2", which wasn't anywhere near the diffrence between top and bottom loads (4" to 3/4").

 

thanks

rick

[fieldwanderer]

So, would I be right in thinking making a certain amount up - say 40ish would be a good place to start?

 

Middle charge weight

Mid way between max and min (saami) oal's

 

And go set the sights up and run the new barrel in for a start.

 

With that done, assuming they can hit a barn door, I guess the next step would be to try various charge weights and hopefully find a sweet spot.

 

Then tweak the c.o.a.l to try to get even better groups

 

That's for bullets I've already bought, if they shoot well in new brass, I guess they'll not shoot worse in once fired - neck sized brass?

 

Failing that, I'll have to start looking at different bullet weights - I know it's not the normal way of going about things, I just want to try what I already have before buying any more, not that there's any rush - the rifle won't be ready until October!

[al4x]

we measure the rifle and get a middle ground charge and going on COAL load up 3 each at 5thou back 10 thou, 15 thou, 20 and 25 then shoot those, pick the best group then play with the charge. But I usually find I hit a half inch group easily so tend not to faff about much after that. My .243 likes 10 thou off the lands and my .223 was 5 thou well still is as I still load for it as a mate has it.

[fieldwanderer]

Agreed, but just for now (the postie didn't bring my stuff today anyway), I haven't got the rifle to measure - can I not load something similar to shop bought ammunition? Partly to do something with my new bits and pieces and partly so I've got ammunition that I can go out and roughly zero the rifle with and break the new barrel in. I gather a barrel won't shoot brilliantly straight off anyway, so these first few aren't about developing a load as such.

 

However, I'll load them to the best of my ability and if they shook o.k. I've got a reasonable starting point and can try loads above and below this and play with distance from lands etc (I do have an aol guage and hornady bullet comparetor).

 

While we're on the subject though, to my way of thinking breaking the barrel in with bullets I intend to use can only be a good thing but is it better to be somewhere near the velocity you'd expect to shoot at or the lower end of the scale for the first however many shots?

 

If I load some similar to shop brought, what's the aol likely to be? Saami spec is 2.290 - 2.350", I guess somewhere on the shorter side would be normal for factory ammunition?

[al4x]

load to book length, it will be ideal for running the rifle in and you never know it might like it, my speer manual suggests 2.350 throughout as a COAL

[fieldwanderer]

Yeah, most of mine says 2.350 too, including the tub of superformance. Erm, with that being the max though, is there a chance of them being too long?

[al4x]

It's not the max its a round that will fit all guns,

[Dougy]

1 thing you can do to start your home loads is prep your brass, although new brass I would put it through the full length resizer. That will insure any damage in transit will be sorted out. Check case length for uniformity,chamfer the case's outside and inside.

 

Also you could knock up another case holder out of a nice bit of wood, because when you double up the powder in a case ( you will, well try too cus it wont all go in) you will find it difficult to save the powder using the plastic trays because you cant pick the cases out with the funnel on top. LOL

Another reason to be careful what you are doing, avoid distractions.

 

Enjoy your future reloading, its therapeutic and relaxing.

[fieldwanderer]

1 thing you can do to start your home loads is prep your brass, although new brass I would put it through the full length resizer. That will insure any damage in transit will be sorted out. Check case length for uniformity,chamfer the case's outside and inside.

 

Yep, I was thinking the same - as it happens, that's another question; brand new brass, full length resized, what to trim to? max, min or somewhere in between?

 

you could knock up another case holder out of a nice bit of wood

 

I've made one with two seperate sets of holes, 25 each end - I've painted one end red, the idea being primed cases start in the plain end and go into the red end when they've had powder put in them.

 

 

Enjoy your future reloading, its therapeutic and relaxing.

 

Thankyou very much I'm already loading 12g but, to be honest, I got bored of it - it's more about speed now but I do find it slightly more convenient.

[fieldwanderer]

The "last" of my gear came today only took 'em a month! then I find I've got the little primer arm but not the little tube and peg to push the primers in - a mad dash to the gun shop sorted that though.

 

So, I got home prep'd some cases - full length sized, trimmed to 1.900", de-burred and primed the first. I must admit I was surprised how tight the primer was (cci in ppu brass) so I ran my lyman uniformer in the rest but they were still bloomin tight.

 

That done, I very carefully weighed the minimum powder charge (38gn) out and got the 6 cases charged with that. Then time to change the die, I set it how lee say to and wound the adjuster screw nearly all of the way out before seating the first bullet and carefully turning the screw in until I got the 2.350" I was after and moved on to the next - I measured them as I went and found there was a little variation so I checked them all to ogive when I was done and there's still a little bit - .004" between longest and shortest, I'd have preferred to have less but I don't think it's too bad, especially at this stage.

 

The plan from here is to do another 5 at roughly the middle powder weight and another 5 just below the max, I know it's not ideal where load development is concerned but those 16 will be enough to get the scope pretty close and I can start looking for an accurate load then and hopefully the barrel will have settled in a bit by then too. All sound o.k. or am I going about it completely backwards?

 

Pictures to follow as soon as photobucket will let me upload them

[wymberley]

Going to assume that you got/are getting the rifle because you want to shoot it. In which case, have a think about what level of accuracy you would find acceptable/sufficient at what distance. Load some and when you get there, load a fair sized batch. Then you can actually shoot while you're then trying to improve your lot. Sometimes horse/cart ends up cart/horse.

[rjimmer]

This is how one chap went about it for a .284.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rfrailey/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/284loaddata.pdf

[fieldwanderer]

Wymberley; that's gone straight over my head mate, can you dumb it down a bit please?

[wymberley]

Wymberley; that's gone straight over my head mate, can you dumb it down a bit please?

Sorry. Sometimes it's possible to forget that the object of the exercise is to shoot something and the determination to load the be all and end all of a cartridge takes over and you end up putting the cart before the horse and actually not shooting anything. Find a load that you are content with, load up a good batch and enjoy your shooting while in slower time you're making improvements as you go along.

[moor man]

wow!

This is how one chap went about it for a .284.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rfrailey/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/284loaddata.pdf

Fascinating read, very thorough and im not sure if I could do that (unless I had a 300m range at the bottom of my garden

Its made me think, am I getting the most from my rifle? probably not.

 

Fieldwanderer; I commend you for your enthusiasm, but after rereading the thread I think you may just be trying to go too fast, better off shooting your new gun with a mid range load till both the gun is' run in'

and you are thoroughly 'at one with it' Then when you can shoot it consistantly, continue with the reloading, your choice. Good luck and be safe

[fieldwanderer]

Thankyou both,

 

I think you've both got me sussed to a certain extent; I bought the rifle and had it sent straight off for a re-barrel, the plan being to build something a bit more personal. I was told 12 weeks, 8 weeks ago and was told 12 weeks again last week! So, I'm itching to get something moving!

 

I always intended to load my own and, to my mind at least, it's very much a case of "if a job's worth doing". However, without the rifle, I can't really do much apart from load some mediocre ammunition up which will get me going when the time comes, while I'm at it though, I guess I can get the scope somewhere near and run the barrel in before I really get into finding a load I'm happy with.

 

All taken on board though, thanks again.

[fieldwanderer]

Anyway, some pic's as promised;

 

My bench (a work in progress);

 

 

 

The components;

 

And the finished product;

[moor man]

looking good! I have a feeling you will be producing good results very soon.

Keep us posted and lots of pics please.

[kent]

I hope this hasn't been done to death, I can't find a lot in the search but I'm guessing it's like the rest of the internet; So much info there, it's difficult to find what you're looking for

 

Anyway, I'm sure there'll be more questions but here's a start;

 

I'm hoping my loading gear will arrive today and I'll then have everything I need - except the rifle

 

Obviously, I can't measure the o.a.l without the rifle but i'll have all these new "toys" that I'll want to try out. So, the idea's to make some cartridges up as long as possible or to max saami length and simply adjust the c.o.a.l when I get the rifle by seating the bullets slightly lower - so, getting to "play with my new toy" will also save me time when I get the rifle back.

 

But, something is puzzling me;

 

You load some ammunition up, various charge weights and shoot some groups, pick the best and then I assume you start tweaking the c.o.a.l to improve on your original best group. Have you not missed a huge amount of possibilities there - i.e. loads that would have shot much better with a different c.o.a.l? Or, does it simply not work like that?

 

I've got 100 new remington brass coming with what I've ordered, the thought was to full length resize it all and trim to a given length (slightly above minimum I guess) to ensure everything's consistent before going any further. What's the normal procedure with new brass?

 

If it is a factory rifle using more or less std hunting bullets, don't waste your time just load to the recommended length given in the data for that bullet. Despite claims to the contrary it very,very rarely makes any difference and often creates a lot of issues for those new to the process. Most errors I have seen are related to length of the loaded round

Very low drag bullets in custom cut chambers etc. are a very different thing. Take a 55 grn 6mm bullet in a factory .243 win chamber and the bullet will fall out the case before you find the rifling, strangely enough they tend to shoot rather well!

This is a hang up from bench rest shooting etc were the guns are very different ans 0.1" makes a difference. Get to close and you have pressure issues, we don't use custom made bullets for hunting and 10 tho clearance can easy turn to a bullet stuffed into the rifling as you proceed through a box of 100. Also give some allowances for the fact that rain or debris might find its way in there.

Fact is manufacturers make it intentionally difficult for the user of a factory gun to shoot a jambed bullet and they tend to work on what can get closest

[fieldwanderer]

Kent, I appreciate the reply but it's not a factory rifle; it's away having a 1in10 put on it. I think for now I've got it sussed for now though, I can't do much until I get the rifle back but I'm in the process of making batches of 5 up of various charge weights (at book length) so I may be able to find one that groups well - then experiment from there.