Peskyfoxs Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-23586552 Sad events, not heard of a farmer being charged before, wonder if the bull had been aggressive previously From the bbc: A man has been charged with gross negligence manslaughter over the death of a walker who was killed by a bull. Roger Freeman died while walking with his wife through Underhill Farm at Stanford-on-Soar in Nottinghamshire, close to the Leicestershire border. Paul Waterfall has been bailed to appear at Nottingham Magistrates' Court on 21 August. The Crown Prosecution Service said he was responsible for the farm at the time of the attack in November 2010. 'Sufficient evidence' Alison Norton, specialist prosecutor for the CPS, said Mr Freeman was killed while walking on a public right of way. "I would like to extend my deepest sympathies to the family of Roger Freeman," she added. "I have concluded there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest to charge Paul Waterfall. "Criminal proceedings are now under way and Mr Waterfall has a right to a fair trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Good point Pesky, if this was the first time the bull had shown any aggression, was the farmer to blame? Did the walkers Whilst the farmer may have been negligent in placing a bull in a field with a footpath through it, I can't see how bringing this case will change anything. Why is it in the public interest to charge the farmer. I only wish the CPS were as keen with more challenging cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm not sure, but could the type, ie, dairy /beef, herd make a difference here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Plain crazy. Prosecution will serve no purpose. Idiotic of the CPS to entertain this case. How many thousands of tax payers money will be wasted on this farce? rant complete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm not sure, but could the type, ie, dairy /beef, herd make a difference here? I think Dairy cows are usually served by AI, in my experience bulls are generally soft or nut jobs (though trust none), known one that could only be moved by the use of 2 tractors to herd it and on the other hand a knackerman messed up putting down a Limousin bull when it moved its head, we caught it on foot even though he had a hole in his forehead. If your land is riddled by footpaths does this mean you can never let a bull in a field ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 You've got to wonder what this country is coming to when crazy cases like this get so far!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I really do feel sorry for the farmer, yes its very sad the guy lost his life, but surly common sense must be looked at in this case... i guess the questions that need answering are..was there enough signs around warning of the bull ? (seeing as there was a right of way) and if so ! was there an alternative route ? i always thought , if you did put signs up..you become liable as you know the animal is dangerous ...... i guess its a no win situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 It's an easy win for the CPS, makes their stats look good. Pesky, we had a cow escape from Penny's abattoir a couple of years ago, woke up to find 3 men dressed in white with a cow in the back garden. Top company, they paid for all the damage without even being asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Is that a local abattoir? Did't know there was one in round us. Good to hear they sorted the garden, they can make a fair mess of your lawn running about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yes, just off the A65 as you come up from Horsforth or the RHS. about a mile after Rawdon Crematorium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMcC Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Bulls that have been castrated are called Steers and reared for beef. Not all cows are AI'd so some bulls are kept intacto and as such are always unpredictable. The Farmer has an obligation to erect signs to warn the public of the presence of a bull because of their unpredictability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 IMO the CPS should most definitely prosecute. Particularly bearing in mind that the decision will have been made following an investigation by the police and the HSE. Anyone who is killed whilst going about their lawful business should expect the person responsible to be prosecuted. Farmers have a duty of care and an obligation to members of the public to have free and safe passage on a public footpath. To graze a bull in such a field is asking for trouble and an accident waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Indeed the difference with this case is its a bull rather than a cow with calves. Bulls are unpredictable and every bit of advice going suggests you don't graze them in fields with footpaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Mother Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 IMO the CPS should most definitely prosecute. Particularly bearing in mind that the decision will have been made following an investigation by the police and the HSE. Anyone who is killed whilst going about their lawful business should expect the person responsible to be prosecuted. Farmers have a duty of care and an obligation to members of the public to have free and safe passage on a public footpath. To graze a bull in such a field is asking for trouble and an accident waiting to happen. Very well put and completely correct. If it was any other business they'd be prosecurted, why are farmers any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0850 Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Very well put and completely correct. If it was any other business they'd be prosecurted, why are farmers any different? I don't think we are...I agree 100% with CharlieT's post. We have rights of way across our land and we have to manage our stock accordingly. Not everyone is the same though, and I think that's not just in Farming, its in every walk of life whether it be making widgets or flying to the moon. I was out in Swaledale on a mountain challenge event a few weeks ago and walked through three separate suckler herds on the public footpath (all in adjacent fields, all with calves at foot and also all three had a bull in the field). I know the bulls are normally calmer when with the cows however even I kept my wits about me and my hand tightly grasped on my stick. The simple thing has to be applying some common sense...on all sides.....Walking / Rambling and use of the countryside is more popular than ever before and the rural community (farmers, keepers and everyone else) are going to have to realise that times are changing and we cannot exist in a bubble as we may have done a generation or so ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 IMO the CPS should most definitely prosecute. Particularly bearing in mind that the decision will have been made following an investigation by the police and the HSE. Anyone who is killed whilst going about their lawful business should expect the person responsible to be prosecuted. Farmers have a duty of care and an obligation to members of the public to have free and safe passage on a public footpath. To graze a bull in such a field is asking for trouble and an accident waiting to happen. Charlie, Only posting because of my earlier post and have now found what was at the back of my mind. Section 59 Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 - if the following remains valid: " A farmer who allows an untethered bull to roam free in a field or enclosure crossed by a footpath or other right of way commits an offence subject to the following exceptions: 1 The bull does not exceed 10 months of age. 2 The bull is not a recognised dairy breed and is at large in a field with cows and heifers." If I've read that correctly, if the bull is a recognised dairy breed, or is not but is on his own and/or is over 10 months old, Mr Giles could be in bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Wymberley, Yes, I guessed your earlier post was referring to that bit of legislation. I thing half the problem is that the law hasn't kept up. The modern continental beef bulls we all tend to now use are just as stroppy as dairy breeds, I would not dream of grazing one of mine in a field with a footpath running through it. It truly is asking for trouble. In the same situation, even if the bull wasn't a recognized dairy breed but say a Limousin, I would expect to be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Agree that a prosecution should be brought. If he has committed no offence, he will be cleared. However, if he is one of those farmers who ignores right of way and leaves a bull in there - he deserves any punishment that a court throws at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 never understood how people have public access to farmers land full of livestock, surely it should be a case of enter at your own risk? Two cows got loose today in melton mowbray farmers market and hurt a lot of people, wouldnt want to be in that guys shoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 never understood how people have public access to farmers land full of livestock, surely it should be a case of enter at your own risk? Two cows got loose today in melton mowbray farmers market and hurt a lot of people, wouldnt want to be in that guys shoes if its a public right of way it should be capable of being entered without some sort of sodding risk assessment 1st, if the farmer put a bull out on field with a right of way through it then its him that took the risk, and a risk this farmer will now be prosecuted for ooh and don't tell me farmers are not aware of the dangers of bulls (enough of them get killed themselves) Obviously we don't know WHY he put a bull out over a public right of way but the fact is he did, and he now deserves the consequences of his actions, actions that killed a man and seriously injured a woman. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Indeed the difference with this case is its a bull rather than a cow with calves. Bulls are unpredictable and every bit of advice going suggests you don't graze them in fields with footpaths. Absolutely! I used to live in the dales and would not dream of walking through a field with a bull in it! I'm sure the local farmer used to do it deliberately to stop ramblers crossing his property! Totally unpredictable. The farmer should not be putting bulls and ramblers/members of the public in the same field! If I had a field with a public footpath running through it and left my dog in there which subsequently killed someone, I would expect to be held responsible! wheres the difference? Edited August 6, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 shouldn't it be you better check if there is a bull in a field before walking into it? pedestrians might have right of way over cars but that doesn't mean you can cross a road without looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Absolutely! I used to live in the dales and would not dream of walking through a field with a bull in it! I'm sure the local farmer used to do it deliberately to stop ramblers crossing his property! Totally unpredictable. The farmer should not be putting bulls and ramblers/members of the public in the same field! If I had a field with a public footpath running through it and left my dog in there which subsequently killed someone, I would expect to be held responsible! wheres the difference? It's not big enough, but it might lick some one to death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 shouldn't it be you better check if there is a bull in a field before walking into it? pedestrians might have right of way over cars but that doesn't mean you can cross a road without looking No, you should not have to check to see if there is a dangerous animal in a field with a public footpath. As this farmer has found out, it is illegal to have a dangerous bull in a field with a public footpath. A public footpath is just that, a footpath on which the public has a lawful right to pass and repass without hindrance or danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I think it depends somewhat on whether the footpath was fenced off maybe even by an electric fence ? Agree from WIMBERLEYS post that the law is the law but do feel for the farmer if this was an accident i.e. he did not know Wimberelys Law - I have to say I didnt but then I'm not a farmer. I have a great deal of sympathy that footpaths have been used for decades and it seems only recently that fatalities have occurred. I have posted recently strongly in the farmers favour over use of footpaths - it seems that was wishful thinking - heaven help the farmer as he will have 2 potential guilty verdicts; the one he feels himself and the one the CPS will seek to impose. If you walk footpaths in farmland surely you should expect this ? Next cows will be banned from fields with definitive footpaths across them: I agree though Limousins are deadly. No, you should not have to check to see if there is a dangerous animal in a field with a public footpath. As this farmer has found out, it is illegal to have a dangerous bull in a field with a public footpath. A public footpath is just that, a footpath on which the public has a lawful right to pass and repass without hindrance or danger. Charlie, I think the highway definition (rights of way are highways) is "without let or hindrance", walking on a highway is or can be quite dangerous ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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