turbo33 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I had a lamping session a couple of nights ago, and whilst we had 12, it should have been 30+! I couldn't make out where the shots were going, nor could the lamper. One minute they seemed high, then left, etc I set the rifle up with Winchester 17grn and was putting in some acceptable groups over the last few target sessions and a few nice long kills, well for me anyway 125+yds So went for a zeroing session today to find out what was going on. I cleaned the rifle before I went. Took a box of winnies and some left over remingtons. Set up a target 50yds and thought I would just fire off 3 remmys to clear the barrel. Perfect cloverleaf Put 3 Winnies through, 4" spread :o Out to 100yds, same again, 3 remmys, thumbnail, 3 winnies, 8" :o :o So I then pushed out to 200 yards, dialled in some info from Strelok. fired 3 remmys, 1" group , the winnies were off the piece of A4 :o :o Ok so the initial obvious result is it likes Remmingtons. And equally, it must have been a duff batch of winnies to be this bad. Particularly as the group was so bad at 50 yards. So my question is, what do you guys find consistently the best round in your 452? If I can get the same result with future remmys then all is well, but finding an hmr round that is consistent in its production seems like rocking horse whatsit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 what ever suits your rifle, i personally cant fault winchester subs through my 452, it does tend to go off when barrel needs cleaning. i shot and killed a rabbit the other night at a ranged 137 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 You said it yourself..... Feed the gun with whatever it likes best. Try a box, if it is good, go back and buy as many as you can of the same batch. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG6065 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I use Hornady, Spot on and deadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted September 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 what ever suits your rifle, i personally cant fault winchester subs through my 452, it does tend to go off when barrel needs cleaning. i shot and killed a rabbit the other night at a ranged 137 yds. Agree, like yours, the subs are ok in my .22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Hmr rounds are all made in the same factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I use Hornady, Spot on and deadly Me too, Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 what ever suits your rifle, i personally cant fault winchester subs through my 452, it does tend to go off when barrel needs cleaning. i shot and killed a rabbit the other night at a ranged 137 yds. have just fell in, we are talking hmr. sorry too much sun today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted September 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Hmr rounds are all made in the same factory So the buzz word goes BB, but there is quite definitely differences somewhere. Otherwise we wouldn't have such differing performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Hmr rounds are all made in the same factory They are not, but several brands are indeed still made by CCI. WIKI "CCI Ammunition loads all of the .17 HMR ammunition for the CCI, Federal Cartridge, Hornady, and Remington brands. However, the ammunition is loaded with different bullets to different specifications.[7] Ammunition is also available from Winchester, PMC and Sellier & Bellot" I believe I am correct in saying that Federal now also load all their own HMR. Edited September 6, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I use Hornady, Spot on and deadly V happy with these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I use Remmington Accutips in both of mine - never had any issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 If you can get a 1 inch group with an HMR at 200 yards then i wouldn't bother trying any other ammo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted September 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 They are not, but several brands are indeed still made by CCI. WIKI "CCI Ammunition loads all of the .17 HMR ammunition for the CCI, Federal Cartridge, Hornady, and Remington brands. However, the ammunition is loaded with different bullets to different specifications.[7] Ammunition is also available from Winchester, PMC and Sellier & Bellot" I believe I am correct in saying that Federal now also load all their own HMR. That makes sense Dekers It was my thought that the bullet head size isn't compatable with the rifling diameter, too narrow maybe? You see it all the time with air rifles that are pellet fussy. If you can get a 1 inch group with an HMR at 200 yards then i wouldn't bother trying any other ammo... On first impressions it seems the Remingtons are an outstanding match for the barrel. So on that basis I have picked up some more to try to see that it wasn't a one off. I'm hoping Dekers info means its the bullet/barrel match that's spot on as that will give the consistency I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 That makes sense Dekers It was my thought that the bullet head size isn't compatable with the rifling diameter, too narrow maybe? You see it all the time with air rifles that are pellet fussy. On first impressions it seems the Remingtons are an outstanding match for the barrel. So on that basis I have picked up some more to try to see that it wasn't a one off. I'm hoping Dekers info means its the bullet/barrel match that's spot on as that will give the consistency I'm looking for. Two 452 off the production line next to each other may like/hate different ammo, add to that quality control and batch issues of ammo manufacturers and whichever way you want to look at it you will get rifle/ammo/performance variations. (we are not discussing any possible damage/wear and cleaning of any gun here either). As has been said so many times, try as much ammo as you can to find what works best, and then try again a thousand or two rounds down the road and you may find things change! Just the same, 1" at 200 yards from a HMR is Outstanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Hmr rounds are all made in the same factory Yawn...... You are way out of date....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Yawn...... You are way out of date....... Sorry for speaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30-6 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I am finding the hmr a very "trying" calibre, and several times have felt like putting a grinder to it and getting a variation for a .223, but don't really need a .223. I envy people who can get consistent grouping, because i can't. One minute it seems to like Remmington and then other brands. I do not wish or really need to shoot much past 100 yds, and am not a target shooter so do not need "bullet on bullet", so my take is, as long as all shots are within 30 mm i'm happy, as long as i can kill a rabbit cleanely and humanely that'll do for me. I want to enjoy using the calibre and come away happy, not swearing at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi 30-6 You should be able to zero your hmr at 100 yards and shoot reasonably flat from about 30 yards to maybe 115 yards without any serious holdover or holdunder. At 100 yards a 1" group should not be too difficult with a reasonably high magnification scope and prone off a bipod. It is about all I can achieve. What is it that you are having trouble with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 If you can get a 1 inch group with an HMR at 200 yards then i wouldn't bother trying any other ammo... Was thinking the same, i can get 1 inch groups at 100 - 120 yards but past that and it opens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Was thinking the same, i can get 1 inch groups at 100 - 120 yards but past that and it opens To be fair Tod, it was ideal conditions with absolutely no wind whatsoever. I only had 3 remmys left to try. Maybe if I had 10 then the result would have been more spread out. I'm not completely confident I could do it again. It was also to test the info that I had put into Strelok. The only point I was attempting to make was the MASSIVE difference in the ballistic performance of two different makes, as the Winchesters were off the paper! I tried a new batch a day or so ago and had 1p sized group at 100yds 2p group at 150yds, but left it at that. I did attempt to do a video for my own amusement, but it was kind of pointless as the target was just a spec in the distance on the camcorder Edited September 8, 2013 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter pb Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Well, some may have read on another forum under the username SandyB, but I was at the point of changing my barrel, but am now seriously convinced I have dodgy Hornady ammo, as on more occasions than I care to remember, I've experienced far too many HMR rounds that sound like a CF when fired, with no impact on the target, and the target being the size of 2 A3 pieces of paper side by side. I've previously tried othe ammo, and until recently Hornady was my first choice and locally available, cannot confidently say that now. Given the choice, home loading is the only way to guarantee accuracy and consistency, but that's my CF's. I think its about time the manufacturers improved their QA and testing..... I think the HMR may stay in the cabinet for a long time Neil some consistent ammunition is produced. Edited September 10, 2013 by varminter pb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the enigma Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 When I first got my 452, I tried several different brands, and it seemed to prefer Federal. So I bought 500 rounds,which I've recently finished off. My RFD was out of Federal,so I picked up a couple of boxes of Hornady to get me going,and these are shooting really well...............performing as well as, if not better than Federal. The thing is,when I first tried out the rifle,it didn't group well with Hornady. I can't make my mind up if it's batch to batch variation with the ammo or if the barrel has become less fussy. I have to say,in terms of quality I've never had any problems with hmr ammo. There have been the usual split cases,but I've never felt that they've had any effect on accuracy. I think I've had only 1 slow burner out of about 7-800 rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Well, some may have read on another forum under the username SandyB, but I was at the point of changing my barrel, but am now seriously convinced I have dodgy Hornady ammo, as on more occasions than I care to remember, I've experienced far too many HMR rounds that sound like a CF when fired, with no impact on the target, and the target being the size of 2 A3 pieces of paper side by side. I've previously tried othe ammo, and until recently Hornady was my first choice and locally available, cannot confidently say that now. Given the choice, home loading is the only way to guarantee accuracy and consistency, but that's my CF's. I think its about time the manufacturers improved their QA and testing..... I think the HMR may stay in the cabinet for a long time Neil some consistent ammunition is produced. It is possible that you have a bad batch of ammunition but that would be easy to isolate, just try a different batch. Ammunition for the hmr is generally very high quality and (by rimfire standards) extremely consistent. I suggest that your problem is not the ammunition but something else. It looks as though your gun may stay in the cabinet permanently unless you can find what is wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 When I first got my 452, I tried several different brands, and it seemed to prefer Federal. So I bought 500 rounds,which I've recently finished off. My RFD was out of Federal,so I picked up a couple of boxes of Hornady to get me going,and these are shooting really well...............performing as well as, if not better than Federal. The thing is,when I first tried out the rifle,it didn't group well with Hornady. I can't make my mind up if it's batch to batch variation with the ammo or if the barrel has become less fussy. I have to say,in terms of quality I've never had any problems with hmr ammo. There have been the usual split cases,but I've never felt that they've had any effect on accuracy. I think I've had only 1 slow burner out of about 7-800 rounds. I would not be too surprised if after 500 rounds the gun is "run in" and may behave slightly differently. Perhaps now a different brand of ammunition will behave a little better. Dare I mention cleaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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