mick miller Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well perhaps. I'm chopping in my .22 long rifle. Never used and I'd rather see someone else get pleasure from this cracking little rifle. However, I'm sort of losing my love affair with the HMR. Whilst it's great at bunny bashing out to 100+ yards it's frankly useless as a foxing round unless you're pretty close and can get a head shot in. So, invariably I end up going to some places with both HMR and .243 on-board. That's not so handy when on foot and an opportunity presents itself though, and some places I go the landowners are as keen to knock out the foxes as they are the rabbits. Whilst I want to keep the .243 (whatever some of you think, I like the .243 Win, it's always served me well for deer) I would like recommendations on a calibre that will: • Allow reloading, so that rules out rimfire • Shop bought ammo at reasonable costs, hopefully less than HMR at (I pay) £13.50 a box. • Be good enough for rabbits without utterly smashing them to pieces if head shot • Be good enough to drop foxes at reasonable ranges (150+ yards) I was looking at .22hornet, .20tac, .17hornet etc. but I'm happy to hand it over to the PW massive, Kent is usually pretty clued up when it comes to calibres. I admit, I'm lost on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 204 remington factory Amos ok and nice round to shoot. Ballistics are very similar to the 20 TAC you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 .22 WMR? If you get a Sako quad you can have that plus .17hmr plus .22LR by changing barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Your excellent post Mick has me thinking 22Hornet U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I guess to get something that is legal for muntjac too is too tall an order? I think .222 is the minimum requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) So .204rem or .22 hornet thus far. I like the look of .204; I wonder what the ammunition costs are like? Edited October 3, 2013 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Scrub my suggestion with WMR being rimfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh yeah. I missed that too. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 So .204rem, .22wmr or .22 hornet thus far. I like the look of .204; I wonder what the ammunition costs are like? Not the cheapest but if you homeload it makes a big difference. If you're wanting the rabbits for meat then I find the .204 a bit over the top even with head shots. Absolutely love mine for foxes but I think if I was using a rifle for both I would consider the .17 Hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 .204 - Awesome round !! I usually pay around £90/100 for Hornady Varmint Express 32g V Max & sell the spent cases for £20.00/100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 A very interesting thread.... I'll watch this. Is there an alternative solution? maybe for fox/rabbit days with the hmr .... get some more squeaks and learn to use them well so you can get the foxes in decent hmr range? The .243 is excellent on foxes and small deer.....you would just forget the rabbits that day, there is always another day. Another unlikely option might be to get a combi rifle/shotgun. ..... not for me but some like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Large caliber and download it? For example some people knock .303 out dirt cheap for range use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 .204 - Awesome round !! I usually pay around £90/100 for Hornady Varmint Express 32g V Max & sell the spent cases for £20.00/100 Totally agree and I'm paying about the same but it is a bit over the top for rabbits. Foxes tend not to like it as much as we do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I have a 22 hornet and it's a great gun a bit of an all rounder but has its limets. If you have more fox in mind than rabbit then a triple maybe the gun for you ? I was after a 204 but the office said no in my land but allowed me a 221 fb lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Now munties been mentioned.....dare I suggest 357! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'll take a look at that too, but .204 with 50gn perhaps makes the legal minimum for muntjac (on paper). I doubt that the ballistic tip is the best choice though! I think it may have to be. 243 for all deer large and small and something else for fox and rabbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 AI 22 hornet may be?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) I'll take a look at that too, but .204 with 50gn perhaps makes the legal minimum for muntjac (on paper). I doubt that the ballistic tip is the best choice though! I think it may have to be. 243 for all deer large and small and something else for fox and rabbit. No. The minimum legal calibre is not less than .220 inches and a minimum muzzle energy of 1000ft lb and the .204 is only .20 inches so be careful. The minimum off the shelf calibre would be a .222 as the hornet hasn't got the muzzle energy required. Edited October 4, 2013 by r1steele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I use my .222 for rabbits all the time. Forget body shots if you want to keep the meat, but deadly accurate on bunnies to 300 yds. You'll never get CF factory ammo as cheaply as rimfire ammo. Like the .204 you'll struggle to get .222 factory at much less than a pound a bang, unless you find a rifle that likes Prvi. Mine hates it, I can't keep a group on the paper at 100 yds. The triple is easy to load for, though maybe not at HMR costs. You can load something for rimfire money, or close to it, but whether it will be the round with the quality components you actually need is another matter. If Winchester ever manage to get their super-magnum to shoot it could kill off the HMR. It doesn't look promising though. Things have gone very quiet. If they can make the cartridge work, I'd like to see a .20 rimfire. Imagine a rimfire with the velocity and tragectory of the HMR, which is absolutely fine for rabbits to 200 yards - if you want to shoot further get a CF - but with higher muzzle energy, better down-range velocity and energy retention and less wind sensitivity. It would be the ideal disposable rabbit round and ought to manage 100 yard foxes far better than the HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry931 Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 .223 and then work up some trail boss loads for magnum rimfire level performance on rabbits. Get a scope with target turrets and easily switch zeroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 .223 and then work up some trail boss loads for magnum rimfire level performance on rabbits. Get a scope with target turrets and easily switch zeroes. What is a trail boss load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Looking at your bullet points, they do indeed point to the 'smaller' 22 Hornet. It is easy to reload. Factory loads are reasonable but there could be a temporary problem with Hornady at present. Unless you are one of the very, very few marksmen that can consistently hit a rabbit in the head, as you have specified, at extended ranges, a canon is not required. It will drop a fox at the distance detailed. The calibre, when reloaded can be an out and out mid-range fox rifle launching 50 grains at a whisper under 2800 ft/sec for some 850 ft/lbs. On the other hand, any of the factory loads will do what you have asked for but none quite as well as a well chosen reloaded bullet of some 40/45 grains and using Lil'Gun powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aister Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Looking at your requirements the first thing I thought of was the hornet. Getting my bullets from America I could reload the hornet cheaper than I could buy .17 hmr rounds. Edit to say - Looking at what you pay for hmr rounds, I can reload my .223 for the same, and personaly I would choose the .223 over the hornet for accuracy and knock down power further out. Edited October 4, 2013 by aister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 The 357 can be loaded for rabbit no problem and is plenty good for small deer. Dirt cheap to reload too...maybe cheaper than top end 22! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Looking at your requirements the first thing I thought of was the hornet. Getting my bullets from America I could reload the hornet cheaper than I could buy .17 hmr rounds. Edit to say - Looking at what you pay for hmr rounds, I can reload my .223 for the same, and personaly I would choose the .223 over the hornet for accuracy and knock down power further out. Hasn't the OP got a 243 for knock down power further out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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