10 bore R.T.O.

[islandgun]

Sorry if these questions have been asked several times before but I am new to reloading and a bit baffled.

I would like to load some lighter loads of lead for my 10 bore (inland Scotland) than the factory loads of 63g. I have a simple original Lee loader and a RTO tool.

Is it dangerous/wrong to use the RTO closure in place of a star crimp on (say) standard Alliant recipes, I believe? that roll crimping reduces pressure slightly.

Also if a recipe for a 3.1/2 inch load asks for 1/2inch of packing inside the wad can I reduce the cartridge length to 3inch and dispense with the packing then close with the RTO?

Thanks for any answers

 

[Big Mat]

Yes you can use a RTO instead of a crimp.

 

I know of one guy who cuts his 3 1/2 inch 12 bore cases down to 3 1/4 inch so that he doesnt have to bother putting packing inside.

[roughshooter]

I have lots of american data here for 10ga cut down cases with rto finish

If you pm me yor email then I will send them over to you

[islandgun]

thanks for your replies, I kind of thought it was alright to change star crimps to RTO but when reading recipes they always say do not alter any components, I will feel a lot happier when I pull the trigger now I might even take off the crash helmet

[DerbyshireDale.]

thanks for your replies, I kind of thought it was alright to change star crimps to RTO but when reading recipes they always say do not alter any components, I will feel a lot happier when I pull the trigger now I might even take off the crash helmet

its not a "component"...its only a way of finishing the shell case, you'll find that the RTO produces lower pressures than a crimped finish so you'll lose some fps, but you'll be quite safe.

[kent]

I have read pressures will be equal but slightly more consistent with a well produced RTO. use the same data - just cut the case to suit your load (using published data)

[sitsinhedges]

I use 65mm 20 gauge cases with a RTO in place of 70mm ones with a crimp and am happy that the pressures aren't raised as a result and are actually probably lowered . I'm not sure though if it would be the same if I were to take a 70mm recipe and fit it into a crimped 65mm case by using a shorter wad for example.

[DerbyshireDale.]

I have read pressures will be equal but slightly more consistent with a well produced RTO. use the same data - just cut the case to suit your load (using published data)

a crimped finish takes more effort (pressure) to push open than a rolled turnover, hence speeds tend to be slightly faster than the rto equivalent caused by the extra pressure produced in trying to open it to allow the components pass through, the middle of a over-shot card gives way easier than the plastic folds of a crimp, think about trying to push open the finishes with your finger, the card would push out leaving the rolled turnover still in place, you'd be unable to do this with a crimped finish.

[islandgun]

Thanks for all the excellent info I feel a lot happier using the RTO now. is it alright to ask another question on this thread. I have the b.p. manual which lists their own products such as wads and fed cases and primers which don't seem available here, is it essential to use their components or can they be substituted ??. Also shot size if the recipe says T can I safely use 1,s, if the shot is weighed does it make a difference. sorry if these are stupid questions.

[kent]

a crimped finish takes more effort (pressure) to push open than a rolled turnover, hence speeds tend to be slightly faster than the rto equivalent caused by the extra pressure produced in trying to open it to allow the components pass through, the middle of a over-shot card gives way easier than the plastic folds of a crimp, think about trying to push open the finishes with your finger, the card would push out leaving the rolled turnover still in place, you'd be unable to do this with a crimped finish.

Not according to other published works. suppose it depends on the crimp and the roll as I see all sorts of different crimps on factory shells even

[kent]

Thanks for all the excellent info I feel a lot happier using the RTO now. is it alright to ask another question on this thread. I have the b.p. manual which lists their own products such as wads and fed cases and primers which don't seem available here, is it essential to use their components or can they be substituted ??. Also shot size if the recipe says T can I safely use 1,s, if the shot is weighed does it make a difference. sorry if these are stupid questions.

No and the Fedral 209a primer is available here no probs however the Fedral cases are hard to get as they are sold pre-primed in the States hence Haz mat here.

[motty]

No and the Fedral 209a primer is available here no probs however the Fedral cases are hard to get as they are sold pre-primed in the States hence Haz mat here.

I just buy the once fired cases.

[shakin stevens]

I just buy the once fired cases.

who sells once fired cases in the uk? the guy at Devon does not sell them he has non in stock.

[kent]

At present there has been a supply stop in the States not long back as the distributer was asking too much for them. Once fired is more the UK option unless you find someone who is willing to knock the primers out of new cases and send them

[roughshooter]

I know of nobody selling once fired in the uk. At £55 per 100 for unprimed remingtons from C&G it makes reloading the 10 bore very expesive.

I have thought of trying to get hold of the new Gamebore 10 bore in lead at £13 a box - fireing them off for practice and then loading them back up again. Not sure whaat cases they are using tho. I bought some 10 bore cheddite from Norman Clark for £34.95 per 100 (skived or unskived) but I did find 120 Winchester Supreme Double x turkey loads so will use those up and then load them again when I need them. It does make you think whether the 10 bore is worth it sometimes when the 12 bore will do almost the same

[Guest cookoff013]

"lower" pressures are very dependent on the original pressure of the cartridge.

 

i know the different crimps can have different data. with regaurds to height.

 

i cant see the decent pressure loads being completely changed, the "pop" of the cartridge is done in a few (~3 microseconds). and i`m sure the main pressure peak is done in the first 2microseconds. before the shot has even left the chamber.

 

if the load is really efficient and burning all the powder, then i cant see rto vs crimp being any kind of "pressure reducing" as even a small reduction would be a minimal (under 1% of total pressure)

 

now i rarely RTO, i have done it but i crimp.

 

would the reduction in pressure be really applicable when there is a natural variation in pressure anyway? SAAMI standards have something like a 4000psi variance and can still pass. some of my loads the pressure is a bit varied (yes, and its still safe). but the finished product is stable at the muzzel fps.

 

untill someone does a like for like loading pushing a powder at 400bar and same similar load at 700bar, and test the crimp techiques and compare this argument will go round and around. if a reloader is soley using the RTO as a pressure reduction technique should really be questioning his load anyway.

 

unless the crimp is severely deep (silly deep) i cant see it changing a decent load.

[kent]

I know of nobody selling once fired in the uk. At £55 per 100 for unprimed remingtons from C&G it makes reloading the 10 bore very expesive.

I have thought of trying to get hold of the new Gamebore 10 bore in lead at £13 a box - fireing them off for practice and then loading them back up again. Not sure whaat cases they are using tho. I bought some 10 bore cheddite from Norman Clark for £34.95 per 100 (skived or unskived) but I did find 120 Winchester Supreme Double x turkey loads so will use those up and then load them again when I need them. It does make you think whether the 10 bore is worth it sometimes when the 12 bore will do almost the same

 

Gamebore are cheddite

[motty]

who sells once fired cases in the uk? the guy at Devon does not sell them he has non in stock.

Last lot I bought were from him. Maybe he has none left now. When I want some more, i'll probably try my luck with Buck's Run in the U.S again.

[shakin stevens]

Last lot I bought were from him. Maybe he has none left now. When I want some more, i'll probably try my luck with Buck's Run in the U.S again.

 

Last lot I bought were from him. Maybe he has none left now. When I want some more, i'll probably try my luck with Buck's Run in the U.S again.

If I had knew I would have had a load off him, think he stopped selling them about this time last year, then again he stopped selling everything you needed!!!

[saddler]

what about the Italian retailers, they not stock 10-bore?

[Big Mat]

what about the Italian retailers, they not stock 10-bore?

 

Siarm don't do any 10 bore cases. Clay game seem to be the only ones selling them at the moment.

[saddler]

I am at a gun show & a couple of auctions in Sweden next month, I can ask over there if it'll be of use?

[roughshooter]

The 10 bore users should really form a consortium. I am sure that a box of 5000 from cheddite would not work out too expensive. I really see no reason why they should be more than £15 a 100 as per 12g 3 1/2" cases

[kent]

The 10 bore users should really form a consortium. I am sure that a box of 5000 from cheddite would not work out too expensive. I really see no reason why they should be more than £15 a 100 as per 12g 3 1/2" cases

I tried for a dealer through a company that import the Cheddite loaded shells in all gauges. Problem was Gamebore and I think Lyvale who have some import rights to them, we were told go to them. I would be happy to do as you suggest though for a load of Remmington etc.

[islandgun]

Thanks For sending the data roughshooter i loaded a 50g recipe from C&G, as this recipe matched the components I have and patterned them this morning everything seemed to work fine, that is there was a loud bang an even spread and holes in the back of the backing board There is a distinct possibility that I may have some more questions soon! cheers