toontastic Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I am having a problem with rats coming from an allotment into my garden, so I am thinking of putting some cage traps out. What I would like to know is would a .22 webley tempest air pistol be a suitable tool for despatching them. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Ideal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulus Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 handy water butt works well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 handy water butt works well Barbaric and I think illegal: "Rural Development Service’s (2006) advisory note on rat control which stated that: ‘Drowning is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution…" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Put o fork in trapping them up one end of the trap making shooting them easier. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 A good hard bite and shake hard.Works for my terriers Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Barbaric and I think illegal: "Rural Development Service’s (2006) advisory note on rat control which stated that: ‘Drowning is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution…" But feeding them poison that causes them to slowly bleed to death is fine ! Personally, given the choice, I would rather drown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 But feeding them poison that causes them to slowly bleed to death is fine ! Personally, given the choice, I would rather drown. Yeah but it's not a personal issue and unfortunately that opinion could land the op in hot water. Bloke got prosecuted for drowning a squirrel. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pigeon man Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 La shovel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 I am having a problem with rats coming from an allotment into my garden, so I am thinking of putting some cage traps out. What I would like to know is would a .22 webley tempest air pistol be a suitable tool for despatching them. Cheers It will do just fine as long as you deliver it to the right place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Barbaric and I think illegal: "Rural Development Service’s (2006) advisory note on rat control which stated that: ‘Drowning is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution…" But feeding them poison that causes them to slowly bleed to death is fine ! Personally, given the choice, I would rather drown. I can see a clear argument, both ways, and historically drowning was a virtually universally accepted way of despatch, but is not considered humane today. Anti Coagulant poisons have been used for many years now and are approved by the Government, Europe and most of the world as humane (so that make it fine then!). The suggestion is that the rat/mouse does not suffer, he just feel unwell, goes home and goes to sleep and simply does not wake up. How the government actually come by this conclusion is beyond me! Edited November 9, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 I was led to believe that poisoned grain was brought back to the burrow where it would kill the young too. I agree that definitions of "humane" are somewhat flexible. Has anyone seen this, though? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/06/mutant-super-rats_n_4223710.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jingles Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Pellet to the head from is always going to be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulus Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I can see a clear argument, both ways, and historically drowning was a virtually universally accepted way of despatch, but is not considered humane today. Anti Coagulant poisons have been used for many years now and are approved by the Government, Europe and most of the world as humane (so that make it fine then!). The suggestion is that the rat/mouse does not suffer, he just feel unwell, goes home and goes to sleep and simply does not wake up. How the government actually come by this conclusion is beyond me! its all daft. you can feed them poison that causes a slow death from internal bleeding. shoot them hopefully with a clean kill but never guaranteed, hit them with a shovel, crush them in a body grip trap, gas them with aluminium phosphate, fill them full of exhaust fumes and bolt them to waiting terriers. send in a ferret after them, but whatever you do, dear god have a heart and dont drown them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) I was led to believe that poisoned grain was brought back to the burrow where it would kill the young too. I agree that definitions of "humane" are somewhat flexible. Has anyone seen this, though? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/06/mutant-super-rats_n_4223710.html Bait should be in sealed bait boxes and not able to be moved, grain as grain is eaten and very difficult to move as it is single pieces of grain. Loose grain in boxes or trays should only be used in sealed environments and not left exposed! Rats are greedy ******* and gorge themselves, they are not known for taking food home for anyone! Immunity is nothing new and is why we are on the second generation of anti coagulants, and also why new poisons are constantly being developed. Edited November 10, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) its all daft. you can feed them poison that causes a slow death from internal bleeding. shoot them hopefully with a clean kill but never guaranteed, hit them with a shovel, crush them in a body grip trap, gas them with aluminium phosphate, fill them full of exhaust fumes and bolt them to waiting terriers. send in a ferret after them, but whatever you do, dear god have a heart and dont drown them Aluminium phosphide Yep...... and don't forget Glue boards, something else Europe keeps thinking about banning, funny old world! Edited November 10, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 A good hard bite and shake hard.Works for my terriers Geordie Yep, my Patterdale would agree 100% with that mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Loads of ways to kill a rat, but the quicker the better. sticky boards are so effective, however it's not a nice site seeing a rat that's chewed its feet off to try and get off. I know rats are rats but they are still deservant of a quick an end as possible. anti-coagulants aren't too bad - internal haemorage due to the lack of Vit K which means each time they move their capillaries that burst don't heal and they bleed internally (something which does also happen to humans with a warferin overdose) and it appears to be a fairly humane practice. I used to work for Rentokil and did some time at their 'rat farm' with a professor who's life work was rats and mice and developing ways to control them. Interesting stuff. Had some videos of rats running up a brick wall like it was horizontal. The issue is that the EU keep lessening what pest controllers are allowed to use, i.e checka tubes used to be great - not allowed. Anything that works - not allowed. They make us use such weak stuff, that you make it less humane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 handy water butt works well if you fancy a large fine it does... http://metro.co.uk/2010/07/19/man-fined-1500-for-killing-a-squirrel-452343/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 I doubt you will do much good with cage traps with resident rats, they are very wary of new objects. Now if they were already in place when they came that's another matter! Get some blue food out and keep it topped up loose in little bags at first just torn so some spills out. Terriers, ferrets and smoke can be very effective at finding the but unless all the exits are totally blocked you are unlikely to make much impact. I hate the scaly tail but you have to admire its tenacity and ability to survive- with BOP, stoats, foxes, cats and dogs not to mention the Human with his traps and poison after them for centuries its certainly no quitter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hi kent, thanx for your reply. Up until just over a week ago there were no rats. It was only when an allotment holder started pulling down some old chicken sheds that they started coming into the garden. I was hoping by using a few traps it would maybe stop them taking up home, or should I be looking at other options. Don't really fancy the idea of poison as I'm worried about them dying in the yard where the dogs/kids could come into contact with poisoned rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hi kent, thanx for your reply. Up until just over a week ago there were no rats. It was only when an allotment holder started pulling down some old chicken sheds that they started coming into the garden. I was hoping by using a few traps it would maybe stop them taking up home, or should I be looking at other options. Don't really fancy the idea of poison as I'm worried about them dying in the yard where the dogs/kids could come into contact with poisoned rats. Shouldn't worry about it just collect any you see as most will go back to the nest for the big sleep. been poisoning a rat problem round one of my buildings last 3 weeks yet to find a corpse and I have seen a fair bit of blue poop then a sudden decrease in sightings /damage. Think the kids and dog is more at risk from what they nasties they carry rather than the content of their stomach - neither will be eating them anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hi kent, thanx for your reply. Up until just over a week ago there were no rats. It was only when an allotment holder started pulling down some old chicken sheds that they started coming into the garden. I was hoping by using a few traps it would maybe stop them taking up home, or should I be looking at other options. Don't really fancy the idea of poison as I'm worried about them dying in the yard where the dogs/kids could come into contact with poisoned rats. Bromadiolone is one of several widely used rat poisons, the chances of cats/dogs/children becoming ill from Secondary poisoning is so incredibly remote as to be realistically discounted! Even if they did, in simply terms, vitamin K will reverse the effect! See LD50 table, rat only needs 1.125mg/kg Bromadiolone and its over, so imagine how many rats a dog would have to eat to ingest 10mg/kg> of Bromadiolone through secondary poisoning. As soon as you stop eating it you start getting better anyway, that's why rat poison should always be kept topped up, or they simply can't eat enough to kill them and they may well end up immune! Oral LD50 Bromadiolone Rat 1.125 mg/kg b.w. Mouse 1.75 mg/kg b.w. Rabbit 1 mg/kg b.w. Dog > 10 mg/kg b.w. Cat > 25 mg/kg b.w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Bromadiolone is one of several widely used rat poisons, the chances of cats/dogs/children becoming ill from Secondary poisoning is so incredibly remote as to be realistically discounted! Even if they did, in simply terms, vitamin K will reverse the effect! See LD50 table, rat only needs 1.125mg/kg Bromadiolone and its over, so imagine how many rats a dog would have to eat to ingest 10mg/kg> of Bromadiolone through secondary poisoning. As soon as you stop eating it you start getting better anyway, that's why rat poison should always be kept topped up, or they simply can't eat enough to kill them and they may well end up immune! Oral LD50 Bromadiolone Rat 1.125 mg/kg b.w. Mouse 1.75 mg/kg b.w. Rabbit 1 mg/kg b.w. Dog > 10 mg/kg b.w. Cat > 25 mg/kg b.w. So in terms of wheat based bromadiolone does a rat need to injest in terms of the wheat by volume to expire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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