Fisheruk Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 My ticket is a year old and just got told NO to open ticket for FAC air and rimmys....been told i would have to wait 5 YEARS...not happy bunny...Thames Valley Police I got a phone call only... I now want it in writing with the reasons why the refusal I even had to have a mentor when i applied. for rimmys..got that took off after 3months...but this is wrong i think... i even added this to the letter as written in the 2013 home office guide to fire arms page 230 i think or near there... I am writing to you today to request that the condition as stated on page 230 of the Home office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2013 be removed.. The condition is as follows: The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall only be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. (The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits). The key is in the last sentence. It is at the discretion of the police to assess the individual merits. How many extra pieces of land do you have permission to shoot over? I would just chill out and wait. If you have multiple pieces of land to have checked they may change their minds, but if you don't what is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Luck of the draw I think! My feo was a young lady just starting- I was even asked if I could make do with one moderator for all three rifles! Yeah because the number of moderators is key to public safety............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 You don't apply for an open ticket as such you apply for a ticket with good reason they then add conditions as they see fit commonly it is closed but not always. When FAC were deivsed there was no such thing as "open" or "closed" they came up with it later (no sur eon the reason why?) the only condition on me old FAC was" no 3 round burst capability" ,sadly that issue has long gone. . i'll put forward me good reasons and see what they say at inspection /interview . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I have had a open ticket for many years My friend got his fac around 5 yrs ago he has just renewed After around 18 months he put in for his open and our fal refused He told them that that he went shooting with me all the time , which they knew as I was is mentor for his fac and he explained he had written permissions for his calibres on 2 of the farms we shoot but not the others, He simply asked if they where not willing to let him shoot land that I was shooting on 50 miles away from home he would leave his gun in the the car as not to break the law, Obviously he got his open ticket as they appreciated they would rather a firearms be left with the owner and not a mile away in a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 My ticket is a year old and just got told NO to open ticket for FAC air and rimmys....been told i would have to wait 5 YEARS...not happy bunny...Thames Valley Police I got a phone call only... I now want it in writing with the reasons why the refusal I even had to have a mentor when i applied. for rimmys..got that took off after 3months...but this is wrong i think... i even added this to the letter as written in the 2013 home office guide to fire arms page 230 i think or near there... I am writing to you today to request that the condition as stated on page 230 of the Home office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2013 be removed.. The condition is as follows: The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall only be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. (The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits). The key is in the last sentence. It is at the discretion of the police to assess the individual merits. How many extra pieces of land do you have permission to shoot over? I would just chill out and wait. If you have multiple pieces of land to have checked they may change their minds, but if you don't what is the problem? It's not a problem until he gets a phone call asking if he can come and reduce the rabbis/foxes etc and he can't until the land is cleared he might just not get the permission. There is a thread somewhere on PW from this week where a police force dragged its heels with land checks and the permission was given to someone with an open ticket as the farmer needed the foxes sorting out ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 the only condition on me old FAC was" no 3 round burst capability" ,sadly that issue has long gone. . i'll put forward me good reasons and see what they say at inspection /interview . Same force area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Same force area? yep same force /area N Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Maybe it was the way you asked I wouldn't have mentioned how many rounds and what I had killed Neither would I have added the bit from the Home office guide Edited December 12, 2013 by castletyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Luck of the draw I think! My feo was a young lady just starting- I was even asked if I could make do with one moderator for all three rifles! Madness, as we all know it shouldn't be luck of the draw, I moved from Leicestershire, they wouldn't grant an open fac, it was virtually offered to me when I move half a kilometer into Notts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgun sam Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 open ticket from day one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 There is no hard or fast rule many say 3 years or even first renewal others are more understanding amount of land what you shoot and how much I do not think you will force their hand all you can do is put your reasons to them and keep asking and getting them to clear land until they get fed up. If you are losing shooting rights then you may have a reason if you can prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean100uk Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Norfolk feo opened mine after a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawdor118 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 My ticket is a year old and just got told NO to open ticket for FAC air and rimmys....been told i would have to wait 5 YEARS...not happy bunny...Thames Valley Police I got a phone call only... I now want it in writing with the reasons why the refusal I even had to have a mentor when i applied. for rimmys..got that took off after 3months...but this is wrong i think... i even added this to the letter as written in the 2013 home office guide to fire arms page 230 i think or near there... I am writing to you today to request that the condition as stated on page 230 of the Home office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2013 be removed.. The condition is as follows: The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall only be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. (The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits). I also included a tally count of rabbits /fox taken this year thats in the guide lines...where does it state 5 YEARS Im not a happy Bunny.. The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall only be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Can someone clarify for me that the above sentence implies as I'm a little confused? At no point does it specify where the "rifle/combination gun/smooth bore gun/ sound moderator" is to be used to shoot any lawful quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawdor118 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Just checked mines and I have had an open certificate since day one as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall only be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Can someone clarify for me that the above sentence implies as I'm a little confused? At no point does it specify where the "rifle/combination gun/smooth bore gun/ sound moderator" is to be used to shoot any lawful quarry. It does specify. land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It does specify. land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. "Land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police" Is the bit that means its closed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawdor118 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It all seems a bit redicuous. Surely if you are competent enough to be given a certificate you should be competent to call a shot in the first place. Plus what qualifies a chief police officer to call weather round is suitable or not when in every likelyhood they have never shot a weapon in their life's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 It all seems a bit redicuous. Surely if you are competent enough to be given a certificate you should be competent to call a shot in the first place. Plus what qualifies a chief police officer to call weather round is suitable or not when in every likelyhood they have never shot a weapon in their life's? Well in theory yes I agree, wait for it ,,,,,, But a large majority of shooters progress from air power to rf, then onto cf, the increase in power from air rifles to rf and cf is huge, learning what a safe shot with a 12ft lb rifle pushing a pellet at 600fps is one thing but firing a cf at 3700 fps is a different ball game. Making mistakes with the latter would be unthinkable, learning to walk before running is a reason for the restrictions. I personally had no objections and understand why I was restricted, but in my case didn't find it a problem. Some may obviously find it awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 The external approval of competence to reduce risk to individual police officers is something we should not accept under any circumstances. To so legitimise our right to shoot is to accept it is a privilege and not a right. As for paying for the privilege of a course that simply adds deer recognition, gralloching etc to a certification that you know when to shoot and can hit a target, is a bit perverse. If it were so simple, shooters could and should be certified by BASC for nothing in their first membership. Getting a ticket from BASC would increase membership quite a bit and makes more sense, given the precaution of insurance provided by BASC - so why dont BASC do it, I suspect because its just not necessary. I would guess most of their insurance claims come from game shooters. Passing the responsibility to a private contractor would absolve the police of making difficult decisions - God knows we dont pay them enough for that ! The only way is no compromise - let the police demonstrate good reason for refusing an application for an open cert - hiding behind bad law is bad practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 In my experience it is indeed linked to ammunition useage rather than time. For example, I applied to have my 22lr and HMR opened, but didnt bother with my .243 because I had only had it for 6 months at that time. When the FEO saw the amount of rounds I had put through the 243 (I did quite a bit of range time with it when I first got it), he told me he was opening that up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 When the FEO saw the amount of rounds I had put through the 243 (I did quite a bit of range time with it when I first got it), he told me he was opening that up too. This is the crux of the stupidity "range time" which prepares you for the ability to call a safe or not shot in the field how? The whole process is nuts now mentoring has gone I can see the requirement for "training" to become more prevalent DSC1 is of very little interest to those looking to shoot fox or boar.... Unfortunately is see it going the same way as the construction industry, where you need a ticket ( 3rd party hoop jumping of training) for everything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 I am more than happy that the Police consider each request and if it causes concern to some that's hard cheese I would consider compulsory instruction / testing of all people before licensing is carried out either shotgun or rifles, as a shotgun owner I see many novices who handle the gun very poorly will little intervention by other members and feel sure many rifle shooters may not fully consider the range their shots can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) It all seems a bit redicuous. Surely if you are competent enough to be given a certificate you should be competent to call a shot in the first place. Plus what qualifies a chief police officer to call weather round is suitable or not when in every likelyhood they have never shot a weapon in their life's? Unfortunately not all ticket holders are competent I have been with a fare few that I would not give them a n air gun never mind a center fire as testing is not compulsory and your FEO doesn't know you they have to place a little faith. As for the chief of police if it goes belly up the buck stops with him no idiot would give a firearms licence to anyone if they could be held liable except the chief constable Edited December 13, 2013 by sixhills 69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Well in theory yes I agree, wait for it ,,,,,, But a large majority of shooters progress from air power to rf, then onto cf, the increase in power from air rifles to rf and cf is huge, learning what a safe shot with a 12ft lb rifle pushing a pellet at 600fps is one thing but firing a cf at 3700 fps is a different ball game. Making mistakes with the latter would be unthinkable, learning to walk before running is a reason for the restrictions. I personally had no objections and understand why I was restricted, but in my case didn't find it a problem. Some may obviously find it awkward. Well said Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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