Bore & Gauge

[hoggysreels]

I'm one of the old school that dislikes the term gauge .. much prefer bore .. similarly l quote choke tubes in English sizes .. l think we should at every opportunity safe gauge our shooting heritage ...

[JonathanL]

I have to say that I don't really like all the 'Americanisms' we incorporate into our lanaguage. However, the term 'gauge' is more proper than 'bore' in my opinion.

 

It's a better term because we aren't talking about an actual measurment - you cannot measure something in 12 bores, for example. Measurements get larger as the numbers get larger but a 12 bore is not larger than a 10 bore. It's a gauge rather thana measurement.

 

.410 bore is a correct term though.

 

J.

Edited December 14, 2013 by JonathanL

[welshwarrior]

As above but 12 bore is just more British so my preference same as choke but it can confuse people.

[Gunman]

Bore size not gauge . Cartridge cases not hulls, fore ends not fore arms, barrel or action flats not water tables and most certainly not "shotties"

I also dislike "ammo" the use of the word weapon when talking about sporting guns and a gun either has chokes or is multi choke so please no "fixed chokes" . Apart from that and few not mentioned carry on .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Bore size not gauge . Cartridge cases not hulls, fore ends not fore arms, barrel or action flats not water tables and most certainly not "shotties"

I also dislike "ammo" the use of the word weapon when talking about sporting guns and a gun either has chokes or is multi choke so please no "fixed chokes" . Apart from that and few not mentioned carry on .

 

I agree we should drop a lot of the "americanisms" we use with regard to our shooting and also in relation to most things in life.

 

Bore is my preference too.

 

But whether you like it or not a gun used for sporting shooting is a weapon, it is designed to kill.

 

And what is wrong with the term fixed choke? It is either a 3/4 fixed choke and full fixed choke or choked at 3/4 and full, either is perfectly acceptable.

[Gunman]

The term fixed is redundant so unnecessary IMHO .When people ,not shooters say WEAPON they emphasise the word making it sound nasty . Gunmakers such as Holland and Holland do not make weapons or they would call themselves "weapon makers " , BEA Systems do that and sell them to armed forces and police although they like to call them "armaments " . I know I am being petty but a pick axe handle [not a baseball bat that is an American import ] can be a weapon as can just about anything else .If I referred to motor bikes as weapons because a motor cyclist had hit a pedestrian then there would be screams of protest for bike owners . Words yes and words can be weapons in ant debate but we must not give the antis weapons to use against us .

[welshwarrior]

Gunman I agree with you I carried a personal weapon and at a secondary weapon for 15 years in the Army I hope never to HAVE to carry any again. However I have been using guns and rifles for years and will continue to do so. My shotguns are not weapons they are sporting goods!!!

[sitsinhedges]

A weapon is any implement calculated to cause deliberate harm to another person. No-one refers to a hammer as a weapon until it is used in this manner, or a knife or a bat etc etc.

 

Why anyone would feel the need to keep referring to sporting equipment as a weapon in the current climate we operate in is beyond me, especially when the term in this context could mean anything from a screwdriver to a scaffold tube. A gun is not a weapon until it is used as such and beyond the Police or Military that should be never.

[Underdog]

Gauges for me. I don't use weapons, I shoot guns and bows but I don't fire my bows, no fire used with a bow!

 

Calibres are not just the bore size but also a combination of the chamber dimensins ...sometimes!

 

U.

[simon1979]

bore for me to.

[kent]

If someone brings a "weapon" they aint shooting with me! Bore I use more in conversation gauge more in written work, interchange between the two and I don't give a monkeys its been going on for years has evolution of language. 410 I never term as either bore or gauge it just the "fourten" now there is one gun I am re-kindling my appreciation of. Some used to call that Lil'one one the "fourhundred and ten bore" you see it in old written work and it sounds just totally bonkers

 

.410 is actually a calibre I think? neither bore nor gauge

Edited December 16, 2013 by kent

[Penelope]

Yep, you can keep all the yank'isms thank you very much, and I'm a 1/4 yank.

[JonathanL]

 

I agree we should drop a lot of the "americanisms" we use with regard to our shooting and also in relation to most things in life.

 

Bore is my preference too.

 

But whether you like it or not a gun used for sporting shooting is a weapon, it is designed to kill.

 

And what is wrong with the term fixed choke? It is either a 3/4 fixed choke and full fixed choke or choked at 3/4 and full, either is perfectly acceptable.

 

Sorry this is something which I strongly disagree with. A 'weapon' is something which is designed or used to cause injury to the person. The vast majority of the things we use are not desigend to do that and they can never be legally possessed for such purposes in any event. Yes, some things like some centre-fire rifles are designed for that purpose but none are possessed for that by any of us. No sporting shotguns are designed to cuase injury to the person and neither are things like .22 target rifles.

 

The term 'weapon' in relation to anything possessed by civilians for sporting purposes should be eradicated, in my view.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Gauges for me. I don't use weapons, I shoot guns and bows but I don't fire my bows, no fire used with a bow!

 

Calibres are not just the bore size but also a combination of the chamber dimensins ...sometimes!

 

U.

 

It is true that we commonly refer to, say, 5.56 NATO or .303 British as being a 'calibre' but they technically not. The calibre refers to some internal measurement of the barrel - whether bore or groove. If refering to the whole then the word 'chambering' is the correct one.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

If someone brings a "weapon" they aint shooting with me! Bore I use more in conversation gauge more in written work, interchange between the two and I don't give a monkeys its been going on for years has evolution of language. 410 I never term as either bore or gauge it just the "fourten" now there is one gun I am re-kindling my appreciation of. Some used to call that Lil'one one the "fourhundred and ten bore" you see it in old written work and it sounds just totally bonkers

 

.410 is actually a calibre I think? neither bore nor gauge

 

It is supposed to be the approximate bore diameter. Having said that they are actually larger than that as you can fire .45 Colt ammo through them which uses a .454 bullet.

 

J.

[wymberley]

Bore, gun/rifle and bullet for me. Also, I'm afraid, because of HM Forces work, 'cylinder' for 'case' sometimes pops out.

[Chris Bb]

The term fixed is redundant so unnecessary IMHO .When people ,not shooters say WEAPON they emphasise the word making it sound nasty . Gunmakers such as Holland and Holland do not make weapons or they would call themselves "weapon makers " , BEA Systems do that and sell them to armed forces and police although they like to call them "armaments " . I know I am being petty but a pick axe handle [not a baseball bat that is an American import ] can be a weapon as can just about anything else .If I referred to motor bikes as weapons because a motor cyclist had hit a pedestrian then there would be screams of protest for bike owners . Words yes and words can be weapons in ant debate but we must not give the antis weapons to use against us .

 

For heaven's sake, it's a HELVE.

 

[Underdog]

 

It is true that we commonly refer to, say, 5.56 NATO or .303 British as being a 'calibre' but they technically not. The calibre refers to some internal measurement of the barrel - whether bore or groove. If refering to the whole then the word 'chambering' is the correct one.

 

J.

Can you explain 44mag then that use a .429 bullet? Or how about 38special that does not use a .380 bullet?

 

We don't say when asked what call is your carbine return a reply of `.429 mate` do we!

 

 

 

It is supposed to be the approximate bore diameter. Having said that they are actually larger than that as you can fire .45 Colt ammo through them which uses a .454 bullet.

 

J.

.410 is 0.410" give or take. The .45Colt guns swage the bullet down some on firing.

 

U.

[JonathanL]

Can you explain 44mag then that use a .429 bullet? Or how about 38special that does not use a .380 bullet?

 

We don't say when asked what call is your carbine return a reply of `.429 mate` do we!

 

 

.410 is 0.410" give or take. The .45Colt guns swage the bullet down some on firing.

 

U.

Yes, .44 mag uses a .429 bullet but that was my point, really. The fact that you can't really trust much that you read. They are often just marketing tools. .303 isn't .303 either. The bore usually is but not the bullet diameter.

 

Guns in .45 Colt don't swage the bullet down. They have .454 grove diameters and use .454 bullets. The bore doesn't get tighter.

 

Actualy, to be very, very pedantic, swaging isn't a process of reducing size it's a process whereby you increase the size of something. You swage up and draw down.

 

J.

[wymberley]

Actualy, to be very, very pedantic, swaging isn't a process of reducing size it's a process whereby you increase the size of something. You swage up and draw down.

 

J.

Actually, to be very, very, very and even more than very pedantic, a swage is a tool. An associated verb transitive gives us, 'to swage'. This tool - a form of mould or die set - is more often than not used to reduce the size of the worked material. An example would be 'swaging' a turnbuckle or other fitting on the end of a cable.

Edited December 17, 2013 by wymberley

[TriBsa]

Bore and Imperial measurements for me too.

 

I was re-reading an old book from the 50's last night and Over and Unders were referred to as Superimposed guns! I liked that.

 

Tom

Edited December 17, 2013 by TriBsa

[Penelope]

I prefer the term nettle bashers, .

 

Bore and Imperial measurements for me too.

 

I was re-reading an old book from the 50's last night and Over and Unders were referred to as Superimposed guns! I liked that.

 

Tom

[wymberley]

Bore and Imperial measurements for me too.

 

I was re-reading an old book from the 50's last night and Over and Unders were referred to as Superimposed guns! I liked that.

 

Tom

Yep, the reason being is the term for a side by side was juxtaposed.

[TriBsa]

Yep, the reason being is the term for a side by side was juxtaposed.

Aha, now I get it, thanks!

 

So was Charles Lancaster's 4 a superimposed juxtaposed?

Edited December 17, 2013 by TriBsa

[Underdog]

Yes, .44 mag uses a .429 bullet but that was my point, really. The fact that you can't really trust much that you read. They are often just marketing tools. .303 isn't .303 either. The bore usually is but not the bullet diameter.

 

Guns in .45 Colt don't swage the bullet down. They have .454 grove diameters and use .454 bullets. The bore doesn't get tighter.

 

Actualy, to be very, very pedantic, swaging isn't a process of reducing size it's a process whereby you increase the size of something. You swage up and draw down.

 

J.

Not pedantic at all, my grammer is to blame.

I meant the guns also designed to shoot 45Colt from a 410 draw the .454" bullet down some. Some have a smoothbore greater than .410 that still shoot shot ok and also have the facility for a rifled choke to be fitted for the 45Colt bullet.

 

U.