Westley Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Can I suggest that if you are going to shoot the field in question and are worried about complaints, do as I do. I 'get in first' by contacting the local Police control room. Ask them to create a 'log', tell them where the location is, (land adjoining .....Road), your vehicle reg. and where it will be parked, the Landowners details and a contact phone number. Explain that all other scaring devices have failed and that shooting is now the only option. I tell them aproximate times of arrival and departure. Ask them for the Log Number and tell them when you have finished, so that they can then close that Log. If you then return to that same field, quote the Log No. and date of previous visit so they can reopen it. It might sound a lot of bother, but I have found it very worthwhile. I have even been contacted by the control room, on my mobile, after a complaint was made of someone shooting towards their house and they could see these'poor birds' getting shot USING BINOCULARS from some 300 yards away ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longchalk Posted December 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) That's interesting Westley. I'll mull it over. I'm not saying it isn't good advice, it sounds pretty bullet proof (pun entirely intentional) but I'm not sure how comfortable I am drawing attention to myself and the landowner like that, given that I only met him a few days ago. I think I'd prefer to work with him to find a solution that avoids the problem, rather than offsets the risk. But it's useful to know what I could actually do if needs be, so cheers. Edited December 30, 2013 by Longchalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 That's interesting Westley. I'll mull it over. I'm not saying it isn't good advice, it sounds pretty bullet proof (pun entirely intentional) but I'm not sure how comfortable I am drawing attention to myself and the landowner like that, given that I only met him a few days ago. I think I'd prefer to work with him to find a solution that avoids the problem, rather than offsets the risk. But it's useful to know what I could actually do if needs be, so cheers. Better that way than ARV's turning up and the fertiliser hitting the fan ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunnage Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Dear Carpentermark,Dave K, Sitsinhedges & the like, You abusive comments & total lack of ability to debate an argument reasonably politely, have won . I give up & wish you well , its been fun ! ps. I have had several personal messages of support ,why ? perhaps they have given up posting because of you & your ilk. Whats the point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 There seems to be a little confusion over this matter which I have recently had some experience of - if this detail was dealt with correctly in earlier posts, please forgive me. Since the land under a highway used by vehicles is owned by the Highway Authority and the land under any other Highway (Rights of Way on foot, BOATS etc) is NOT, different rules apply. You can shoot from a footpath legally and without restriction where the 'highway' (not for vehicular use) passes through land over which you have permission to shoot - the land under the ROW is owned by the landowner. You can shoot across a footpath and you can obviously do so over and on PRIVATE roads, if you have the owners permission. Make sure you have considered the risk and have perhaps posted a notice considerately as a result. Your landowner may be liable if you do not have shooting insurance and an accident occurs. Naturally you would always shoot in a safe manner, whatever class of Highway is relevant in your case. However anyone who is 'anti' can cause you personal problems, if, even without good reason, they complain they were frightened or disturbed by the way you behaved ONLY on HIGHWAYS with public vehicular access. This may happen, despite the caveat in law of within 50ft of the centre of the Highway in question. The police should establish the truth but will not necessarily treat you as innocent until proved guilty because you are a firearm owner. My advice to anyone is to put yourself in the position of a reasonable person who is not a shooter and may be inconvenienced by your shooting, (in addition, stay well beyond 50 ft of the centre of the highway where it is for vehicular use) It must also be remembered, always, that shot which leaves land on which you have permission to shoot is trespass and could result in a possible police caution if committed dangerously. (over a public highway, where shot may hit or land on users who find it dangerous/disconcerting). This is unlikely beyond the specified 50 ft as trespass is a civil offence, low shooting across vehicular Highways could potentially be considered criminal and invite any appropriate charge including assault, if a person were wounded by other than falling and spent shot , This, I believe, is the statement of correct law in England and Wales. Others may have different views and I would be keen to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Dear Carpentermark,Dave K, Sitsinhedges & the like, You abusive comments & total lack of ability to debate an argument reasonably politely, have won . I give up & wish you well , its been fun ! ps. I have had several personal messages of support ,why ? perhaps they have given up posting because of you & your ilk. Whats the point ? You were wrong bunnage, just hold your hands up and get on with it. It's only the internet...it really doesn't matter in the grand scale of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Dear Carpentermark,Dave K, Sitsinhedges & the like, You abusive comments & total lack of ability to debate an argument reasonably politely, have won . I give up & wish you well , its been fun ! ps. I have had several personal messages of support ,why ? perhaps they have given up posting because of you & your ilk. Whats the point ? bunnage, you claim you are a farmer. I would like to call you out and ask you to offer up your credentials to prove you are not a troll or anti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealchucknorris Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) You were wrong bunnage, just hold your hands up and get on with it. It's only the internet...it really doesn't matter in the grand scale of things. Bang on. Dear Carpentermark,Dave K, Sitsinhedges & the like, You abusive comments & total lack of ability to debate an argument reasonably politely, have won . I give up & wish you well , its been fun ! ps. I have had several personal messages of support ,why ? perhaps they have given up posting because of you & your ilk. Whats the point ? Bunnage, it isn't about 'winning' the internet, the posts against yours were about information you presented as fact when it's a personal opinion. I'm sorry you feel abused by the comments in this thread but by the same token I haven't seen you post anything to evidence or confirm your point of view - that would have been a good platform to continue a healthy debate as you indicated you'd have liked. The brevity and tone of their posts only seemed to match yours so I'm not too sure how you expected some people to react. Threads like this will always throw up a range of opinions and be a hot topic but where the law is concerned it's important that facts and opinions are clearly defined and evidenced. Worth putting this thread behind you and engaging more on other topics perhaps? Happy New Year Edited December 31, 2013 by Therealchucknorris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fse10 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) You must never shoot across a footpath, it is illegal to shoot within 15 yards of a path as it is a public highway. Be careful ! No it is only illegal to shoot within 50ft of a highway ( road) if you interfear with the user or cause fear to the user. A footpath/bridle way is not a highway so is legal to shoot over even next to but common senses says that we dont but no law to say we cant. I MUST read all post's before posting as all in my post has already been said . Edited January 4, 2014 by fse10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 No it is only illegal to shoot within 50ft of a highway ( road) if you interfear with the user or cause fear to the user. A footpath/bridle way is not a highway so is legal to shoot over even next to but common senses says that we dont but no law to say we cant. I MUST read all post's before posting as all in my post has already been said . Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 After all of that I bet that there are no pigeons to shoot in those fields after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealchucknorris Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 After all of that I bet that there are no pigeons to shoot in those fields after all. Haha and the footpath has now become a towpath... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC00P Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have a footpath running up the side of a wood then up a farm track and then out onto the hill on one of my permissions and it can be quite unnerving when someone appears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you are unnerved by the appearance of people on the footpath then you are probably going to make the right decisions as to where to shoot, if at all. If someone is 'gung ho' in their approach to this potentially tricky matter then they will invariably make the wrong decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC00P Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have never had any trouble from walkers but i got a real dirty look from a horse rider who wasn't even on the footpath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Personally I'd shoot the best spot it sounds fine! I shot a grouse moor this year footpaths and walkers all over it we just worked around it. Best do what u feel comfortable with though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have a footpath running up the side of a wood then up a farm track and then out onto the hill on one of my permissions and it can be quite unnerving when someone appears Imagine how unerving it would be for a walker to stumble across someone dressed for concealment carrying a gun..... The better the separation of the two, the less likely the chance of a mis-understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Imagine how unerving it would be for a walker to stumble across someone dressed for concealment carrying a gun..... The better the separation of the two, the less likely the chance of a mis-understanding. Or maybe a simple notice warning of shooting away from but in close proximity to a footpath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2012 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I shoot near some busy footpaths. Never put a sign up or anything, I just work around it and make sure I'm aware of anybody that may have strayed from the path. As long as your shots are safe and you have permission then i cant see a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numanoid Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 50 feet from a highway and youre asking for trouble shooting near joe public regardless who is in the right or wrong on a footpath or bridleway.Golden rule if you're not 100% sure what you're are shooting at or where your shot may end up, don't pull the trigger.... always better to be safe than sorry in every case. Respect your prey and respect joe public, who a vast majority do not like field sports(hunting/ fishing etc) so dont give them any more ammunition than they already have, so avoid conflict and behave in respectful true country sportsman manner when out to protect our sport. Enjoy your shooting but not at all cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I shoot near some busy footpaths. Never put a sign up or anything, I just work around it and make sure I'm aware of anybody that may have strayed from the path. As long as your shots are safe and you have permission then i cant see a problem +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealchucknorris Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 50 feet from a highway and youre asking for trouble shooting near joe public regardless who is in the right or wrong on a footpath or bridleway.Golden rule if you're not 100% sure what you're are shooting at or where your shot may end up, don't pull the trigger.... always better to be safe than sorry in every case. Respect your prey and respect joe public, who a vast majority do not like field sports(hunting/ fishing etc) so dont give them any more ammunition than they already have, so avoid conflict and behave in respectful true country sportsman manner when out to protect our sport. Enjoy your shooting but not at all cost! I see where you're coming from, but if you're within the law then you're entitled to stand your ground and help educate anyone that may be suffering from some badly misinformed views. Demonstrating respect for both surroundings, quarry and any additions to your environment (stray animals and people) is part and parcel of being a good shooter and that's nothing to be ashamed of - in fact that should only enhance your (and the sport's) reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 50 feet from a highway and youre asking for trouble shooting near joe public regardless who is in the right or wrong on a footpath or bridleway.Golden rule if you're not 100% sure what you're are shooting at or where your shot may end up, don't pull the trigger.... always better to be safe than sorry in every case. Respect your prey and respect joe public, who a vast majority do not like field sports(hunting/ fishing etc) so dont give them any more ammunition than they already have, so avoid conflict and behave in respectful true country sportsman manner when out to protect our sport. Enjoy your shooting but not at all cost!Sorry, I find your post oddly unsettling - the law is just that and if you engage with the spirit of it you will always be in the right. How many people do you get on your bridleways footpaths ?? +1 +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 50 feet from a highway and youre asking for trouble shooting near joe public regardless who is in the right or wrong on a footpath or bridleway.Golden rule if you're not 100% sure what you're are shooting at or where your shot may end up, don't pull the trigger.... always better to be safe than sorry in every case. Respect your prey and respect joe public, who a vast majority do not like field sports(hunting/ fishing etc) so dont give them any more ammunition than they already have, so avoid conflict and behave in respectful true country sportsman manner when out to protect our sport. Enjoy your shooting but not at all cost! +1 due to the fact that the majority of the public are not going to know the specifics of the law or legal distances from highways or footpaths etc. Even this thread has demonstrated that experienced shooters don't know the exact law(s) ref footpaths on private land etc so how do we expect Joe Public to know. Being "in the right" really counts for nothing and we should avoid conflict where possible. It's not about being ashamed but merely reducing bad press and in my mind indirectly protecting our sport through limiting negative events. +1 Ditto I see where you're coming from, but if you're within the law then you're entitled to stand your ground and help educate anyone that may be suffering from some badly misinformed views. Demonstrating respect for both surroundings, quarry and any additions to your environment (stray animals and people) is part and parcel of being a good shooter and that's nothing to be ashamed of - in fact that should only enhance your (and the sport's) reputation. This is where we exist in a utopian world where we all respect each other? I'm not sure how many shooters are going to be able to `educate` a walker/rambler/rider when they take offence when we are dressed in Realtree (or similar) and carrying a shotgun/firearm. I would love to educate people but there is a time and place and a possibly heated debate in the middle of nowhere might not be the best place. Bear in mind that under general licence you shouldn't cause alarm or concern etc and those that try to stop shooting quote this in their guidelines: "If a person shoots from or over a public right of way, it may amount to the civil offence of nuisance or a criminal offence of intimidation, harassment or obstruction." So whether we like or not - people will cry foul if they want to. I am sure no-one wants their days shooting ruined by a police response which will include ARV's, maybe a helicopter and all the usual processes. You might be in the right but as we know, the police will have to respond if a complaint is made and you could go through all the hassle of losing your guns etc if the Force in question choose to be heavy handed. It simply isn't worth the hassle. The countryside is plenty big enough to shoot places that are a reasonable distance from possible human interaction. If someone gets upset by a shooter, I can't see them being in a mood to be reasonable or to be educated. You are right in your logic but sadly logic and reality don't always go hand in hand. We run the risk of appearing belligerent if we chose to stand our ground and potentially invite confrontation. I don't expect everyone to agree but "I'm right because I know I am" isn't the best defence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 +1 due to the fact that the majority of the public are not going to know the specifics of the law or legal distances from highways or footpaths etc. Even this thread has demonstrated that experienced shooters don't know the exact law(s) ref footpaths on private land etc so how do we expect Joe Public to know. Being "in the right" really counts for nothing and we should avoid conflict where possible. It's not about being ashamed but merely reducing bad press and in my mind indirectly protecting our sport through limiting negative events. Ditto This is where we exist in a utopian world where we all respect each other? I'm not sure how many shooters are going to be able to `educate` a walker/rambler/rider when they take offence when we are dressed in Realtree (or similar) and carrying a shotgun/firearm. I would love to educate people but there is a time and place and a possibly heated debate in the middle of nowhere might not be the best place. Bear in mind that under general licence you shouldn't cause alarm or concern etc and those that try to stop shooting quote this in their guidelines: "If a person shoots from or over a public right of way, it may amount to the civil offence of nuisance or a criminal offence of intimidation, harassment or obstruction." So whether we like or not - people will cry foul if they want to. I am sure no-one wants their days shooting ruined by a police response which will include ARV's, maybe a helicopter and all the usual processes. You might be in the right but as we know, the police will have to respond if a complaint is made and you could go through all the hassle of losing your guns etc if the Force in question choose to be heavy handed. It simply isn't worth the hassle. The countryside is plenty big enough to shoot places that are a reasonable distance from possible human interaction. If someone gets upset by a shooter, I can't see them being in a mood to be reasonable or to be educated. You are right in your logic but sadly logic and reality don't always go hand in hand. We run the risk of appearing belligerent if we chose to stand our ground and potentially invite confrontation. I don't expect everyone to agree but "I'm right because I know I am" isn't the best defence! Perhaps I have been fortunate or perhaps the local police are a bit more clued up or maybe its because I have a reasonable relationship with them but I have never had the police side with walkers etc when they were wrong and being bloody minded. Unless you use your allowance given in law, maybe talk to the police first, you will eventually lose the right to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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