bay firearms Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 A bit of advice needed please gents. Used to use .17HMR on the rabbits a few years ago. Got a .22LR now and went out with it last night. Zero'd it the day before @75yds using Winchester subsonic hollow point (40gr), nice 1/2 grouping. There were a lot of rabbits around, all under 100yds, and I was chuffed that all I could hear was the click of the firing pin when I pulled the trigger. Only problem was I couldn't hit a cat's **** with a banjo, not one kill. I took 4 shots at one and he stood there laughing at me. It looks like I'm a bit rusty on calculating range and therefore the subsequent adjustments. I remember my .17HMR being very flat, and accurate. Would using a high velocity round in the .22LR give a better trajectory (fly flatter) therefore being a bit more forgiving when my calculations are off? or view on a .22WMR??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I would not be with my rangefinder with .22LR (I zero at 50 yards with Eley subs)if not known ranges, as you say 17HMR is a lot easier from 40 to 120 yards range but rangefinder for anything much more. Edited January 12, 2014 by Good shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 You say the gun will shoot 1/2" groups. So if you are missing it is your fault. Practice judging ranges and how to alter your aim accordingly. Winchester subs are good bullets as you have already proved to yourself, stick with them. The benefit of the .22 is that it is cheap to run and very quiet. It defeats both of those by going HV or WMR. I'm no world class sniper or anything but my sights are set to 45 yards and I can hit anything out to 130 yds by adjusting my aim point. It is just practice and familiarity with the gun. Personally I think 75 yards is too far as a zero point. (plenty of others will disagree no doubt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 From a 75yd zero, the drop at 100yds is just under 4", so you have to accurate with your range estimation. As said above, its just practice and getting used to the round. I have found that a 60yd zero works best for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay firearms Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks gents, I think your right. The Winnie subs with ny rifle seem to be a very good match. A re-zero to 50yds and a bit of cobweb blowing off my range estimation skills and I should be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 If the gun you are talking about is the BRNO Mod 2 as in your sig, it is the same gun I have. As I say, I expect to hit anything from silly close right out to 130 yards and with a little luck maybe a titch more. All about practice, I have been shooting mine for more than 35 years. Recently bought a CZ Scout, so that has taken its place rather. Hunter 6x40 scope all those years too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Get a download of Hawke Ballistics calculator and stick all the ballistic data into that. Basically zero at 55 yards for a 1" kill zone from 11 yards out to 62 yards. IMHO Remmies bad, Winnies good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay firearms Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yea it is the model 2 I'm using. Thanks for the help gents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 If you already have a HMR I'm struggling to see any point using HV .22lr or probably WMR either. (my personal view is that I don't see the WMR as a rabbit gun anyway) HV .22lr is noisy, and nowhere near as accurate as a HMR, with a HMR in the cabinet I would have thought your expected gain in a .22lr is subs and lower noise. The Arc on a Winchester sub is like falling off a cliff compared to a HMR but a bit of practice and you will get used to it. I have 2 x .22lr, HMR and WMR, it is many years since I have found the need to use a HV in the .22lr! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 a 75yd zero on .22 subs is too far IMO unless you are never going to shoot at 35yds. you don't want to be thinking of holdunder as well as hold over I zero at 50 or 55 yds means no holdunder for shots under 40 yds and you still have a sensible drop out to 100yds Rabbits have perfect drop calculators built into the top of their heads...ears! I don't use a range finder but find I can judge within 5-10yds ranges out to 100+ with 5-10 yds you still have a healthy 1-2" window depending on range http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/images/22subsonic_plot.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 a 75yd zero on .22 subs is too far IMO unless you are never going to shoot at 35yds. you don't want to be thinking of holdunder as well as hold over I zero at 50 or 55 yds means no holdunder for shots under 40 yds and you still have a sensible drop out to 100yds Rabbits have perfect drop calculators built into the top of their heads...ears! I don't use a range finder but find I can judge within 5-10yds ranges out to 100+ with 5-10 yds you still have a healthy 1-2" window depending on range Like the guy says, your zeroing too far out with subs. Things are closer than you think at night and I will bet your going over the top, even a 50 yds rabbit is tricky with a 75 zero http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/images/22subsonic_plot.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 a 75yd zero on .22 subs is too far IMO unless you are never going to shoot at 35yds. you don't want to be thinking of holdunder as well as hold over I zero at 50 or 55 yds means no holdunder for shots under 40 yds and you still have a sensible drop out to 100yds Rabbits have perfect drop calculators built into the top of their heads...ears! I don't use a range finder but find I can judge within 5-10yds ranges out to 100+ with 5-10 yds you still have a healthy 1-2" window depending on range http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/images/22subsonic_plot.gif Had a look at the link and noted the BC given. Should anyone have their own preferred programme and be interested in fiddling for themselves, then, www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/22rimfire.cfm may be of interest. This is from the superb Sierra Infinity Suite edition Six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay firearms Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't have the .17HMR anymore, hence only using the .22. Sounds like the general opinion is to zero at around 50yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't have the .17HMR anymore, hence only using the .22. Sounds like the general opinion is to zero at around 50yds. Yes unless you take the HV route. I do and use hold to 100 plus on a good day 6"-8" drop at 100 depending on which sub 4" Full value 10mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yet another punter who shoots, misses or wounds live animals before learning his trade on paper targets...... Oh well. Try zeroing at 55 yards. Your shots will probably be within a 1" circle from about 15 to 60 yards but at 80 yards expect a drop of about 3 inches and a drop of 6 inches at 100 yards. Every gun / ammunition combination is very different. You really MUST practice on targets before considering live quarry, and get a rangefinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay firearms Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks for the advice gents, taken on board. Dadioles, thanks for repeating what others have said, from high up on your purch. That's why I for advice, not criticism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yet another punter who shoots, misses or wounds live animals before learning his trade on paper targets...... Oh well. Try zeroing at 55 yards. Your shots will probably be within a 1" circle from about 15 to 60 yards but at 80 yards expect a drop of about 3 inches and a drop of 6 inches at 100 yards. Every gun / ammunition combination is very different. You really MUST practice on targets before considering live quarry, and get a rangefinder. I don't use a rangefinder personally I feel if you need one with a .22 you are already beyond your capability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 TBH I never use a rangefinder with the rimmies. I started of zero'd at 45 paces, but moved out to 60m as the average range I was shooting bunnies at was getting further away! The worst thing I ever did was buy 1000 Remmington subs cheap from a gamefair - they made me want to leave the gun in the cabinet! Back onto the Winnies now. I'd zero where you do most shooting. If that is 100 yards the gun is capable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I don't have the .17HMR anymore, hence only using the .22. Sounds like the general opinion is to zero at around 50yds. My CZ452 runs with a 60 yards zero, my Magtech 7022 has a 50 yards zero, that's what works for me, they are exclusively sub sonic tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I would not be without my rangefinder with .22LR if not known ranges, as you say 17HMR is a lot easier from 40 to 120 yards range but rangefinder for anything much more. (I zero at 50 yards with Eley subs with .22 LR. (edited to say without) My .22 LR is used from 25 to 125 yards ranges and accurate range estimation is very important re 'drop'. Rangefinder is used when ever I am shooting an unknown range.. A mate and myself often guess distances and check with rangefinder how far out we are out.We never seem to guess the same range as each other. I prefer to use rangefinder if in any doubt . I recognise my capabilities re range estimation and use the tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 My .22 LR is used from 25 to 125 yards ranges and accurate range estimation is very important re 'drop'. Rangefinder is used when ever I am shooting an unknown range.. A mate and myself often guess distances and check with rangefinder how far out we are out.We never seem to guess the same range as each other. I prefer to use rangefinder if in any doubt . I recognise my capabilities re range estimation and use the tool for the job. For whatever reason I seem quite good on distances, right through to centrefire ranges. Many are more confident with a range finder, and why not, they can even be useful at air rifle distances, if it works for you then crack on I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 TBH I never use a rangefinder with the rimmies. I started of zero'd at 45 paces, but moved out to 60m as the average range I was shooting bunnies at was getting further away! The worst thing I ever did was buy 1000 Remmington subs cheap from a gamefair - they made me want to leave the gun in the cabinet! Back onto the Winnies now. I'd zero where you do most shooting. If that is 100 yards the gun is capable. I will set a challenge to anyone who thinks they can reliably hit random rabbits at various ranges less than 75-80 yds when their gun is zeroed what amounts to 6-8 MOA high! that's way too confusing and many shots presented you would have to aim at the dirt in front of the bunny (a 50 yd shot your 3-4" over the top with that zero) holding under on shorter shots is so much harder than holding over on long shots. Make use of trajectory by zeroing at 50 ish, its been done like that for more years than any of us have been around, heck why do you think 50 is the common .22 target range set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I will set a challenge to anyone who thinks they can reliably hit random rabbits at various ranges less than 75-80 yds when their gun is zeroed what amounts to 6-8 MOA high! that's way too confusing and many shots presented you would have to aim at the dirt in front of the bunny (a 50 yd shot your 3-4" over the top with that zero) holding under on shorter shots is so much harder than holding over on long shots. Make use of trajectory by zeroing at 50 ish, its been done like that for more years than any of us have been around, heck why do you think 50 is the common .22 target range set up? Who said anything about that, if all your rabbits are 100 yards away or 75 yards, whatever distance, on your land, then you zero at that distance, if you shoot on all sorts of land and rabbits present circa 20-100yards then it would make sense to zero around 50-60 yards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I zero subs at 55 yards, find that works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Who said anything about that, if all your rabbits are 100 yards away or 75 yards, whatever distance, on your land, then you zero at that distance, if you shoot on all sorts of land and rabbits present circa 20-100yards then it would make sense to zero around 50-60 yards! We have been here before. No rabbits come nailed to the spot! there is a fair old difference between a 75 yd shot and a 100 yd one then more still at 115! Dial in sure, zero? not for me. about 50 is the best use of the trajectory curve with subs it matter not that is half way to 100 yds that's just co-incidental. its more about the height of the peak trajectory over the line of sight, further you push the range the higher the peak becomes. Personally, After trying many different zero set ups I found the 50 gave fewest misses from 20- 75 (hold becomes easy to apply progressively from 50-75 (that 25 yds slot is very easy to estimate well quickly by eye) Although I spent a fair few years dialing past this I figured those shots were only really on in favourable wind conditions (4" FV @ 100 yds 10mph) so I changed to straight old fashioned hold over (6" at 100 with my rig) giving up to half a head wind max in those mentioned "good conditions". In deed with some good practice in ranging visually and shooting this way its quite surprising what the .22 is capable of range wise with a std fixed six scope Its your option if you have glued down game though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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