Another apology request- Miners Strike

[kdubya]

Oh dear, do we make no progress towards civilisation ?

If i was a person to whom Scargill was a hero, I would need my gun to shoot myself.

Not encouraging anyone to do that BTW.

you are so far off to the right you would probably miss.

 

KW

[kdubya]

What about the pickets that killed the bloke in the taxi.....

 

There was thuggery on both sides,

 

My brother in law was a printer at the pit, his union wasnt on strike (so got nothing) but the abuse they suffered if they dared to go to work was nobodies business

 

I'm out of any further discussion on this topic because it makes my blood boil on how innocent Scargill and the miners were

 

and this will be where your first hand knowledge or should I say hearsay came from, nice to see facts used then.

 

KW

[Alfred]

I'm amazed that the old miners are still blaming Thatcher, even the NUM has disowned Scargill.

He's been exposed for what he really is, sponging off the paying members of the NUM, trying to buy a property under Thatchers right to buy scheme....his shame has no bounds.

The man is a total fraud and he crippled the British mining industry with his own greed.

 

If they'd been sensible we might still have a mining industry but they all blindly followed Scargill with his mission of greed and look where it got them.

On the dole while he laughed all the way to the bank.

 

Thank god Mrs Thatcher held firm.

Imagine the state the country would be in if people like Scargill had been allowed to rule.

[Westley]

 

Correct me if I am wrong, BUT are the majority of mines that were kept open by miners co-operatives, not now closed due to a lack of coal

[pat 1]

I'm amazed that the old miners are still blaming Thatcher, even the NUM has disowned Scargill.

He's been exposed for what he really is, sponging off the paying members of the NUM, trying to buy a property under Thatchers right to buy scheme....his shame has no bounds.

The man is a total fraud and he crippled the British mining industry with his own greed.

 

If they'd been sensible we might still have a mining industry but they all blindly followed Scargill with his mission of greed and look where it got them.

On the dole while he laughed all the way to the bank.

 

Thank god Mrs Thatcher held firm.

Imagine the state the country would be in if people like Scargill had been allowed to rule.

And what a great state it is in!.

[kdubya]

I'm amazed that the old miners are still blaming Thatcher, even the NUM has disowned Scargill.

He's been exposed for what he really is, sponging off the paying members of the NUM, trying to buy a property under Thatchers right to buy scheme....his shame has no bounds.

The man is a total fraud and he crippled the British mining industry with his own greed.

 

If they'd been sensible we might still have a mining industry but they all blindly followed Scargill with his mission of greed and look where it got them.

On the dole while he laughed all the way to the bank.

 

Thank god Mrs Thatcher held firm.

Imagine the state the country would be in if people like Scargill had been allowed to rule.

yeah thank god for her, imagine if we had millions on benefit and our biggest source of national income was the service sector, no industry or innovation,and we needed to devalue the pound over and over again to maintain a level just about level with a bankrupt country like Greece, our we had allowed our nation to be flooded with masses of unskilled immigrants in order to artificially lower the wage structure and keep our own unskilled youth on benefit from day one, or to have an education system that churns out a form of education that places its end product just above a mud skipper, or heaven forbid allow an environmental agency to consider the flooding of half the southern counties to be not their problem, buses in towns stopping at 6pm, bins emptied fortnightly, and a navy and air force that, is about on par with a few airfix kits, yep thank god.

 

 

KW

Edited January 30, 2014 by kdubya

[Alfred]

And what a great state it is in!.

 

 

yeah thank god for her, imagine if we had millions on benefit and our biggest source of national income was the service sector, no industry or innovation,and we needed to devalue the pound over and over again to maintain a level just about level with a bankrupt country like Greece, our we had allowed our nation to be flooded with masses of unskilled immigrants in order to artificially lower the wage structure and keep our own unskilled youth on benefit from day one, or to have an education system that churns out a form of education that places its end product just above a mud skipper, or heaven forbid allow an environmental agency to consider the flooding of half the southern counties to be not their problem, buses in towns stopping at 6pm, bins emptied fortnightly, and a navy and air force that, is about on par with a few airfix kits, yep thank god.

 

 

KW

 

KW

 

 

Exactly.

You want to thank your lucky stars its as good as that Comrade KW.

If Scargill and the unions had their way it would be like 1970's Poland.

You'd have to queue round the block for your pound of flesh instead of demanding it on here.

 

Solidarity my ar$e.

[Kes]

you are so far off to the right you would probably miss.

 

KW

K - I like the wit and respect your opinion but 'right' I am not, just sensible about despots and he was certainly one.

[mbga9pgf]

It was a third world industry. Maggie saw the potential for liabilities claims from the atrocious working conditions found down t' pit. The country would have been on its **** with the payments we would now be making to those working in the nationalised coal industry.

 

Why should the government pay subsidies to national coal when it was far cheaper to import from Canada or china from their open cast mines?

 

My sorrow regarding the strikes revolves around the deep divisions between those who continued to work to support their families and those who continued to strike, as well as the lack of investment in re-training of those who lost multi-generational livelihoods. Sad, devisive times, but maggie saw it rightly or wrongly as a battle line against socialism and communism. IMO, she won.

[Kes]

It was a third world industry. Maggie saw the potential for liabilities claims from the atrocious working conditions found down t' pit. The country would have been on its **** with the payments we would now be making to those working in the nationalised coal industry.

 

Why should the government pay subsidies to national coal when it was far cheaper to import from Canada or china from their open cast mines?

 

My sorrow regarding the strikes revolves around the deep divisions between those who continued to work to support their families and those who continued to strike, as well as the lack of investment in re-training of those who lost multi-generational livelihoods. Sad, devisive times, but maggie saw it rightly or wrongly as a battle line against socialism and communism. IMO, she won.

Useful assessment.

[pat 1]

It was a third world industry. Maggie saw the potential for liabilities claims from the atrocious working conditions found down t' pit. The country would have been on its **** with the payments we would now be making to those working in the nationalised coal industry.

 

Why should the government pay subsidies to national coal when it was far cheaper to import from Canada or china from their open cast mines?

 

My sorrow regarding the strikes revolves around the deep divisions between those who continued to work to support their families and those who continued to strike, as well as the lack of investment in re-training of those who lost multi-generational livelihoods. Sad, devisive times, but maggie saw it rightly or wrongly as a battle line against socialism and communism. IMO, she won.

 

What a great leader,throwing hundreds of thousands onto the scrapheap for their own good. I hope there is logic there somewhere but I can't see it. No doubt those here who seem to slate the miners are our present day public sector beurocrats,maybe not but their attitude appears to suggest it. Be careful now not to bite the hand that feeds you regardless of right and wrong. Your children must be real proud of their gutless daddies. Scargill may have had his bad points,no one denies that but to try and cannonise an evil b***h who spent her Christmases with the paeophile Saville is a bit much. By her actions we can see the true nature of that beast.and she wasn't on her own which is becoming apparent by the day. My countrymen knew about the evil hag long ago. So instead of apologies the present shower should be on their knees begging for the forgiveness of those whose lives they destroyed.

[delburt0]

I would like to see an apology from Scargill

But there is as much chance of that happening as an apology from the politicians.

I too live in an ex mining village and there are still families that don't speak due to the strike.

Yes the whole thing could have handled better on BOTH sides, but it wasn't, so dredging up old greviences won't help anyone

me too Shaun but it will never happen, I live a couple of miles away from the man and my outlaws live at the side of his local shop I see him on a regular basis and to be quite honest I do not have the time of day for him, neither for ann. His ex wife, a apology I'm sure is the last thing to come from that man :(

[Dave-G]

We'd still have a manufacturing industry if (collective) unions hadn't made the British workforce too expensive to run business's worth continued investment. Scargill went too political on top of being a ranting idiot looking out for the I'm alright jacks. Trouble is the unions were only good for their members - with a little knock on to general wages. Those without union benefits were still trying to make a living from less money so they were driven to more poverty.

 

Textiles, shoes, steel, machine tools, British vehicles, aircraft, ships etc are just the ones off the top of my head.

[wildrover77]

You can call her evil if you like maybe it takes evil to know evil, she certainly new how to deal with the evil among my fellow country men in NI

[Alfred]

What a great leader,throwing hundreds of thousands onto the scrapheap for their own good. I hope there is logic there somewhere but I can't see it. No doubt those here who seem to slate the miners are our present day public sector beurocrats,maybe not but their attitude appears to suggest it. Be careful now not to bite the hand that feeds you regardless of right and wrong. Your children must be real proud of their gutless daddies. Scargill may have had his bad points,no one denies that but to try and cannonise an evil b***h who spent her Christmases with the paeophile Saville is a bit much. By her actions we can see the true nature of that beast.and she wasn't on her own which is becoming apparent by the day. My countrymen knew about the evil hag long ago. So instead of apologies the present shower should be on their knees begging for the forgiveness of those whose lives they destroyed.

 

Did you actually know any miners?

 

My family were mostly miners, we lived right next door to a large colliery.

My dad decided not to go down the mines and was a car mechanic working at a local garage, I remember my uncle laughing at him because he was earning four times what my dad was for much less hours, plus he had a benefits and pension package that my old man could only dream of.

So with all these miners earning many times what they were worth its no wonder the whole lot disappeared up its own ****.

 

Same as Grangemouth, the company went to the workforce looking for a bit of common sense, I know two people who work there and they're both on upwards of 80k a year.

It wasn't sustainable with the pensions and benefits package that they had, so the company approach the workforce looking for a bit of common sense to help everyone so it can stay open - and what did Unite do? Exactly what Scargill did, they couldn't care less about the bigger picture or the normal working man, its all about politics and posturing, so they carry on demanding salaries and benefits that simply weren't sustainable, with the end result that company decide to wind up.

 

Thats exactly what happened with the miners, the government (and more importantly the tax paying public) didn't have the money to keep stuffing it into the NUM's pockets, so they had to call for something sensible to happen. Scargill obviously doesn't have the brains for sensible and crusing on a wave of union power he fooled the miners into thinking that they could hold the whole country to ransom to keep bleeding the tax payers dry.

Fortunately Thatcher had bigger balls than Callaghan and kept the country from going bankrupt.

 

I understand it was an unpleasant time but I shudder to think what would have happened without the Winter of Discontent and if Mrs Thatcher hadn't come into power.

We'd have had 20yrs of Eastern Block style leadership and by the 1990's we'd all have been on food ration books and in so much debt that this recent economic crisis wouldn't have mattered because we'd be living in a third world country anyway.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

 

Did you actually know any miners?

 

My family were mostly miners, we lived right next door to a large colliery.

My dad decided not to go down the mines and was a car mechanic working at a local garage, I remember my uncle laughing at him because he was earning four times what my dad was for much less hours, plus he had a benefits and pension package that my old man could only dream of.

So with all these miners earning many times what they were worth its no wonder the whole lot disappeared up its own ****.

 

Same as Grangemouth, the company went to the workforce looking for a bit of common sense, I know two people who work there and they're both on upwards of 80k a year.

It wasn't sustainable with the pensions and benefits package that they had, so the company approach the workforce looking for a bit of common sense to help everyone so it can stay open - and what did Unite do? Exactly what Scargill did, they couldn't care less about the bigger picture or the normal working man, its all about politics and posturing, so they carry on demanding salaries and benefits that simply weren't sustainable, with the end result that company decide to wind up.

 

Thats exactly what happened with the miners, the government (and more importantly the tax paying public) didn't have the money to keep stuffing it into the NUM's pockets, so they had to call for something sensible to happen. Scargill obviously doesn't have the brains for sensible and crusing on a wave of union power he fooled the miners into thinking that they could hold the whole country to ransom to keep bleeding the tax payers dry.

Fortunately Thatcher had bigger balls than Callaghan and kept the country from going bankrupt.

 

I understand it was an unpleasant time but I shudder to think what would have happened without the Winter of Discontent and if Mrs Thatcher hadn't come into power.

We'd have had 20yrs of Eastern Block style leadership and by the 1990's we'd all have been on food ration books and in so much debt that this recent economic crisis wouldn't have mattered because we'd be living in a third world country anyway.

 

Well said.

 

It was desperately sad for the effects on the mining community and their families, but something had to be done.

 

I remember the dead not being buried because of strike action, and our friend Red Robbo and his chums destroying parts of the car industry.

 

Some may say that bad management of the car industry didn't help, but two wrongs don't make a right. I went to meetings of SOGAT to see what it was all about, and was appalled at the tactics used to try and generate a strike. "We must stand up against them brothers....". I was a management trainee at the time, and had to be part of SOGAT to work on the shop floor as part of my training.

 

The difficulty that many don't appreciate is that at the time the country was going broke (sounds familiar) and for fairly obvious reasons (as of now) the government could not tell the complete facts because of a run on the pound etc. The realities were that finance has always been a major part of this countries wealth generation.

 

I have worked in the manufacturing industry all of my working life, and been at the sharp end of redundancies (been there!) and corporate greed. However, you cannot deny the dynamics of the marketplace, and if your labour costs are too high, or investment too low then you are going down a one way street eventually. Government subsidies will only work if action is put in place to redress, and Scargill and co would not bend to the realism of basic economic facts.

 

I would repeat that the effects on the mining community were appalling, but something had to be done. Maybe not under the timescale that Thatcher implemented, but the situation was undeniably dire and quick action was needed.

 

Maybe Thatcher got some things wrong, but hands up the person who hasn't. Hindsight is always wonderful, but at the time the custard had hit the fan good style.

[overandunder2012]

you are so far off to the right you would probably miss.

 

KW

classic

[overandunder2012]

its ok the cons dont need to apologize as long as they dont expect apologies from the miners when they call thatcher a **** seems fair as any apology from either side would be totally false i think.

[pat 1]

You can call her evil if you like maybe it takes evil to know evil, she certainly new how to deal with the evil among my fellow country men in NI

Have to agree with you there,when the UDA and co tried to cripple the country with their ulster workers strikes,during which they increased their genocidal murder campaign against the civilian nationalist population Thatcher told them if they didn't stop she would withdraw the financial assistance,result ICI,Harland and Wolfe and others withdrew leaving their vast majority unionist workforce redundant. I detest the woman as a politician and as a human being but her only saving grace was she treated everyone with equal distain. Maybe now some of her policies could be reinacted to sort the biggotts who are back on the streets rioting and wrecking.

[Alfred]

Have to agree with you there,when the UDA and co tried to cripple the country with their ulster workers strikes,during which they increased their genocidal murder campaign against the civilian nationalist population Thatcher told them if they didn't stop she would withdraw the financial assistance,result ICI,Harland and Wolfe and others withdrew leaving their vast majority unionist workforce redundant. I detest the woman as a politician and as a human being but her only saving grace was she treated everyone with equal distain. Maybe now some of her policies could be reinacted to sort the biggotts who are back on the streets rioting and wrecking.

 

 

I think your statement only goes to prove that she was a very strong and intelligent woman who made the right decisions despite the pressures placed upon her.

The miners and the Ulster workers both tried to cripple the country for their own ends, she saw them off and ensured that people got to lie in the bed they had made for themselves.

[old rooster]

We can only thank whatever god we believe in that Maggie stepped up to the mark against the determined communist attempts to destroy the economy on a broad front. Pity it hadn't been nipped in the bud a bit sooner, the guys in the kremlin must have been rubbing their hands with glee at the antics of the scum they backed like Scargill who should have been tried for treason!!

 

His own union members even realised what a traitor he was eventually but not before they had been coerced into destroying their own livelihoods.

 

The Cold War was in full swing and it made perfect sense to try and disrupt us in that way, pity it wasn't exposed fully at the time!!

[scutt]

SO SHOULD BRITISH GOV MAKE APOLOGIES FOR PAST EVENTS AND POLICIES they have the ones that come to mind are slavery and the MowMow also first world war executed soldiers sure folk could add to the list. We seem to have a liken for hand wringing and saying sorry .Hind sight is a great but these decisions of past governments acted on in real time then ARE EXACTLY THAT history and should we try to change it with a SORRY PAL.On a personal note my Dad and brother worked down the pit no interest in politics whet so ever but effected by the events all the same the thing my Dad didn't like was branded an enemy within as he started as a Beven boy during the ww2 . also no one has the right to comment on wages unless they have actually done the job I only went down the mine twice both on school visits the conditions they worked in where hard even thou this was a modern pit Bates at Blyth. what I am getting at is politics of the past should stay in the past So no apology .should we respect both sides now that's a different matter

[pat 1]

I think your statement only goes to prove that she was a very strong and intelligent woman who made the right decisions despite the pressures placed upon her.

The miners and the Ulster workers both tried to cripple the country for their own ends, she saw them off and ensured that people got to lie in the bed they had made for themselves.

Strong and determined of that there is no doubt. Making the right decisions, well that will no doubt be a subject for debate for probably the next hundred years. I can see what you are saying and reluctantly agree in some small part,however please,please,please don't ever compare the murdering biggotts who operated here to men who just wanted to work to be able to feed their family's. Scutt,look at the present bunch and the previous rabble who sat in parliament, they will be apologising for generations for the harm they have done both at home and abroad for the foreseeable future,that is if they ever develop a conscience, which will probably be never. As for us here,well basket case springs to mind,run by terrorist's of all shades in Armani suites and six figure saleries.

[Alfred]

Strong and determined of that there is no doubt. Making the right decisions, well that will no doubt be a subject for debate for probably the next hundred years. I can see what you are saying and reluctantly agree in some small part,however please,please,please don't ever compare the murdering biggotts who operated here to men who just wanted to work to be able to feed their family's.

 

There was murder going on here as well, have a read about David Wilkie, a poor taxi driver who was killed by two scum miners that dropped a concrete block on his car.

His crime? Driving a miner to work.

The NUM blamed the government for encouraging miners to return to work, Kim Howells should be expelled from the country for that comment.

 

When the two murderers were convicted another 700 scumbags walked out of work in sympathy, even though the strike was now over.

Unfortunately the two killers had their sentence and conviction reduced and got out after 5yrs, while Mr Wilkies children grew up without a father.

 

Thats miners happy to murder people to protect their pensions and big salaries.

They weren't just striking to feed their families, they were happy to murder innocent men to get what they wanted.

[Kes]

Its important for me to note that, of those who were caught up in the strike, it wasnt ever going to be about coal or jobs, it was always going to be about power. The poor families who just wanted to work and those others who simply wanted normality again, were not considered by either the miners or politicians once the 'game was afoot'. It was then simply "cry hazard and let loose the dogs of war". The government couldnt afford to lose for all the reasons we know, Maggie was stung by what the miners did to the last Government under TH.

Those who were dragged along on either side never really saw that all out war had been declared until it got dirty - on both sides.

I have my side and its chosen on the basis that unreasonable (and communist infiltrated) unions were killing the country - remember demarcation ?

I can very much sympathise with the families who bore the brunt on the miners side, it certainly wasnt the higher union men, They had intended to declare war and 'devil take the hindmost' - even if those were their supporters.

I think we all know there was no other way but confrontation, a showdown had to happen and we are, where we are and what is past, is perhaps best laid to rest.