four-wheel-drive Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I was watching RTV news today as I do at times to get a different perspective on things as I do not trust the BBC well this program came on and I must say that there are a lot of things that I like about there gun laws but then some of them are not so good I am all for teaching children to shoot but giving them guns and not supervising them is to me mad see what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I went to safe shot in Nevada 6 weeks ago they gave my 12 year old daughter who had never held a gun a full auto 7.62 ak47 no instruction at all then stood back to let her shoot I was quite shocked the policy is someone stands with/behind you with an auto but with a hand gun your on your own ..... I made sure she was safe and we had a great time but I'm not sure that this was best practice Just reporting my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I'm all for children shooting at a proper age but a responsible adult should always be present to oversee, clear the gun and store it safely when finished. My daughter loves shooting kennym's Falcon in the attic and knows not to touch it unless daddy says, however you cannot trust even your own child when you are not there so I make sure all my stuff is locked away and secure. I could not live with myself if anyone was hurt due to my slack gun storage. Edited February 27, 2014 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillfrbs Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 15,000 kids injured and 32.000 adults killed each year. and they say they don't have a problem with guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 15,000 kids injured and 32.000 adults killed each year. and they say they don't have a problem with guns. How many are legally held though? You can't slam there gun laws because of criminals using guns illegally. I would think the actual legally held gun crime is a fraction of the overall, same as over here. But due to a far greater population the figures will look alarming compared to ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 How many are legally held though? You can't slam there gun laws because of criminals using guns illegally. I would think the actual legally held gun crime is a fraction of the overall, same as over here. But due to a far greater population the figures will look alarming compared to ours. Gun crimes not the only issue, there does seam to be a lot of accidents with legal guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 How many are legally held though? You can't slam there gun laws because of criminals using guns illegally. I would think the actual legally held gun crime is a fraction of the overall, same as over here. But due to a far greater population the figures will look alarming compared to ours. Legal or or not hardly comes in to it as you can go to a gun show in a lot of states and buy anything with no license or check on you mostly you only seem to need permits to carry a gun in public and shotguns and hunting guns from what I now all that you need is to be an American citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Seems to me that whatever their limited gene pool in that town there is a massive lack of parental duty/care/guidance and common sense. I suggest the parents should perhaps need a licence to have children! 15,000 child gunshot hospital admissions per year. What kind of rational society thinks this is in any way acceptable? Staggering stupidity of those parents. Those gun companies and dealers, whilst acting within the law, have a moral void. First and foremost it is the parents to blame. Is the word "supervision" not in their vocabulary? Did it elope with "common sense" to have 47 little red-neck babies all called AK ? It is simply frightening. It makes me welcome our restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 15,000 kids injured and 32.000 adults killed each year. and they say they don't have a problem with guns. Any source for these figures and their relevant categories of cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) neillfrbs, on 27 Feb 2014 - 09:14 AM, said: 15,000 kids injured and 32.000 adults killed each year. and they say they don't have a problem with guns. Any source for these figures and their relevant categories of cause? I would be interested to see where you got your figures as well. Letting children have access to firearms unsupervised is a bad idea, common sense I think. Edited February 27, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Any source for these figures and their relevant categories of cause? In the video above For the figure anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 A large number of 'children' in the US killed or injured by guns include shootings by feral kids in street gangs using illegal guns. The last analysis of shooting deaths of children in the States I saw said that accidental death by drowning in buckets of water by toddlers was a higher annual statistic than those falling victim to accidental gun deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 'This is the gun debate through the eyes of children'. Says it all really. If it saves one life......No mention of the different categories of fatalities which make up the total sum. If you do some research you'll find that the largest percentage of adult gunshot fatalities are either suicide or committed with illegally held firearms. I saw instances of children using guns under supervision and with the consent of adults on the video, but didn't the deaths of children involve those children gaining access to guns without the parents knowledge or consent? I understand of course, to leave a gun unsecured where a child may gain access to it is gross negligence on the part of the parent, but can the fault for this be levelled at American gun law or the availability of firearms? Surely this is down to the parent. Don't we all ensure as responsible parents that all medicines, matches, lighters etc are kept from the access of our children? Methinks this problem reaches much further than the availability of guns. I had five handguns, three shotguns and a rifle when my first born was a toddler; she never got access to any of them.I now have six shotguns, two rifles and three air rifles. My children are in no danger. The child who was shot and killed in Scotland with his fathers air rifle by an associate of his father wasn't a victim of Scotlands gun laws, but of crass drug addled stupidity and negligence on the part of the adults concerned, but the father is now a devout supporter of proposed firearms legislation! You couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 'This is the gun debate through the eyes of children'. Says it all really. If it saves one life......No mention of the different categories of fatalities which make up the total sum. If you do some research you'll find that the largest percentage of adult gunshot fatalities are either suicide or committed with illegally held firearms. I saw instances of children using guns under supervision and with the consent of adults on the video, but didn't the deaths of children involve those children gaining access to guns without the parents knowledge or consent? I understand of course, to leave a gun unsecured where a child may gain access to it is gross negligence on the part of the parent, but can the fault for this be levelled at American gun law or the availability of firearms? Surely this is down to the parent. Don't we all ensure as responsible parents that all medicines, matches, lighters etc are kept from the access of our children? Methinks this problem reaches much further than the availability of guns. I had five handguns, three shotguns and a rifle when my first born was a toddler; she never got access to any of them.I now have six shotguns, two rifles and three air rifles. My children are in no danger. The child who was shot and killed in Scotland with his fathers air rifle by an associate of his father wasn't a victim of Scotlands gun laws, but of crass drug addled stupidity and negligence on the part of the adults concerned, but the father is now a devout supporter of proposed firearms legislation! You couldn't make it up. But this is not the action of a rational human being. However, it is an psychological deflection of his guilt in a feeble attempt to excuse or absolve himself of all responsibility in a knee-jerk reaction fuel by misplaced emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Seems to me that whatever their limited gene pool in that town there is a massive lack of parental duty/care/guidance and common sense. I suggest the parents should perhaps need a licence to have children! 15,000 child gunshot hospital admissions per year. What kind of rational society thinks this is in any way acceptable? Staggering stupidity of those parents. Those gun companies and dealers, whilst acting within the law, have a moral void. First and foremost it is the parents to blame. Is the word "supervision" not in their vocabulary? Did it elope with "common sense" to have 47 little red-neck babies all called AK ? It is simply frightening. It makes me welcome our restrictions. How many RTA admissions to our hospitals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillfrbs Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 guys watch the bloody video ,that's where the figures come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangford wildfowler Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I suppose a good majority of us gun owners do it the proper way lome when them to wee fellers were shooting in the film and there mum said it teaches them responsibility she is 100 % right if taugbt properly I know myself that when we first got are shotgun again that I wasnt allowed near it until my father had comete faith that I knew all about gun safety and how to operate it I a safe way and I was allowed to get thwm out of the safe and what not but now as my father has complete faith in me he lets me clean them and carry them when where out shooting And in my own opinion I wouldnt let anyone children under the age of eleven start and shot juat my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Seems to me that whatever their limited gene pool in that town there is a massive lack of parental duty/care/guidance and common sense. I suggest the parents should perhaps need a licence to have children! 15,000 child gunshot hospital admissions per year. What kind of rational society thinks this is in any way acceptable? Staggering stupidity of those parents. Those gun companies and dealers, whilst acting within the law, have a moral void. First and foremost it is the parents to blame. Is the word "supervision" not in their vocabulary? Did it elope with "common sense" to have 47 little red-neck babies all called AK ? It is simply frightening. It makes me welcome our restrictions. Sometimes restrictions can go too far. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely tragic that anyone loses their life, no everyday matter what the cause. The nanny state with its restrictions, a massive knee jerk reaction to appease the uninformed and ignorant has not done anything to stem the tide of violence. Every day in the papers you read about another victim of knife violence etc, or one punch knockouts, whilst denying responsible shooters a very respectable and enjoyable pastime - look at the handgun ban for example. I would agree with everything in moderation however. My own child received her own rifle at age 9 , late by some standards, early by others. However, it was right for my family. I trust my daughter as she is very sensible, however would I let her out with her rifle unsupervised - absolutely no way. Not even when she is 10, 11, 12 and on and on. As a responsible parent the only time she will be allowed out of my sight when shooting is when she is old enough to buy her own firearms - by then I will have more worrying things to think about with boyfriends etc. some parents are just idiots and do not deserve children period. Responsible gun ownership stars from instilling gun safety each and every time a firearm is to be used, muzzle direction etc etc. To leave a loaded firearm hanging around the house is just too silly. Some people have good reason to, being in the woods etc, but with children around I would say this is an absolute no. Unlike the rifles, children are not miniature versions of adults. - they are children, and tend not to think through consequences of their actions - all part of being a kid right? By the same token a responsible adult should not necessarily be hindered by the state and told what they can or cannot own. Yes there has to be limits and background checks, but banning handguns in the UK was just ignorant of the politicians. Sure the victims families may think different but I do not hear about a ban on vehicles, knives etc. just be very careful about submitting to such restrictions as once taken away these things tend to be very hard if not impossible to get back. Common sense and adhering to safety rules can go a long way in any sport, in making it fun and enjoyable for all, not matter what the age, of course with some exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 guys watch the bloody video ,that's where the figures come from. I have watched the video, but there is no breakdown on the accumulation of the figures quoted. How many were deliberate acts of violence; how many were accidents, how many were with legally held firearms? How many with illegally held firearms? Drug related? Gang related? Suicide? Murder? Self defence? Police shootings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 How many RTA admissions to our hospitals unclear on how this relates to the point .......does it link to kids guns that should be locked up awaiting parental supervision....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Sometimes restrictions can go too far. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely tragic that anyone loses their life, no everyday matter what the cause. The nanny state with its restrictions, a massive knee jerk reaction to appease the uninformed and ignorant has not done anything to stem the tide of violence. Every day in the papers you read about another victim of knife violence etc, or one punch knockouts, whilst denying responsible shooters a very respectable and enjoyable pastime - look at the handgun ban for example. I would agree with everything in moderation however. My own child received her own rifle at age 9 , late by some standards, early by others. However, it was right for my family. I trust my daughter as she is very sensible, however would I let her out with her rifle unsupervised - absolutely no way. Not even when she is 10, 11, 12 and on and on. As a responsible parent the only time she will be allowed out of my sight when shooting is when she is old enough to buy her own firearms - by then I will have more worrying things to think about with boyfriends etc. some parents are just idiots and do not deserve children period. Responsible gun ownership stars from instilling gun safety each and every time a firearm is to be used, muzzle direction etc etc. To leave a loaded firearm hanging around the house is just too silly. Some people have good reason to, being in the woods etc, but with children around I would say this is an absolute no. Unlike the rifles, children are not miniature versions of adults. - they are children, and tend not to think through consequences of their actions - all part of being a kid right? By the same token a responsible adult should not necessarily be hindered by the state and told what they can or cannot own. Yes there has to be limits and background checks, but banning handguns in the UK was just ignorant of the politicians. Sure the victims families may think different but I do not hear about a ban on vehicles, knives etc. just be very careful about submitting to such restrictions as once taken away these things tend to be very hard if not impossible to get back. Common sense and adhering to safety rules can go a long way in any sport, in making it fun and enjoyable for all, not matter what the age, of course with some exceptions. I Had focused on the hunting aspect of the video and my reference to our restrictions on hunting guns seems about right to me. It seemed to me the video focused on shotguns and small rimfires - perpahs .22's or whatever Crickets are. Pistols in the UK are a different matter IMHO. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 In many ways it is hard for us to understand as we have a very different relationship with guns than they do for most of us in the uk a gun is used for sport or pest control if we go for a walk in the country we have nothing to fear from wild animals. they have all sorts of dangers awaiting them from poisonous snakes to bears etc etc also in country areas they go hunting for meat to eat and last but not least there are some nasty people out there and they do have guns so if you live in parts of that country is can be handy to have a gun withing reach you may not have time to find your keys unlock your gun cabinet then get some ammunition by which time you are dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 In many ways it is hard for us to understand as we have a very different relationship with guns than they do for most of us in the uk a gun is used for sport or pest control if we go for a walk in the country we have nothing to fear from wild animals. they have all sorts of dangers awaiting them from poisonous snakes to bears etc etc also in country areas they go hunting for meat to eat and last but not least there are some nasty people out there and they do have guns so if you live in parts of that country is can be handy to have a gun withing reach you may not have time to find your keys unlock your gun cabinet then get some ammunition by which time you are dead. Not forgetting that in certain states you get paid if you happen to shoot a criminal in your home committing a crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 What a sad piece of propaganda this little documentary is. Dutch guy going to America thinking he can tell them what to teach kids or not, somehow scared of inanimate objects sitting on racks in a gun shop. PLus he is wrong when he says many times:"stuff like this in Holland is not allowed". Last I heard guns are lawfull to posess in Holland, albeit highly restricted but not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 watched the vid, i think if you cannot remove the huge numbers of guns from the states which aint gonna happen i would have to agree with the shooting ground guy, the children must be educated with guns as the accidents will happen when kids dont know what they are doing. if you live in a society rife with guns where your kids go to houses of others where there are guns you got to give your child gun education even if its just if someone points a gun at you run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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