CPSA - Taking the mick?

[alanlee]

I've had my renewal through for the CPSA - up from £46 to £55, - a near 20% increase.

I couldnt recall any mention of this in the Pull magazine, so had a look at the monthly Committee meetings. In one of them,October I think, there was mention of 'a modest increase in membership fees next year'.

I dont think 20% is anywhere near modest.

Anyway, at the shooting ground on Sunday, there was a lot of muttering about this increase, with many saying they are not bothering anymore, as, for the typical B and C class shooter, the CPSA gives virtually no benefit to them - they will never shoot for the County, never mind the Country, so why bother paying the extra fees to fund the CPSA.

There then followed a lot of discussion about how badly the CPSA were run, and then it turned to the name change. I wasnt too bothered myself about the name change, but then I was told the cost of doing it - many tens of thousands - from changing the letterheads/business cards to new signs outside head office, new artists fees for changing all of the differing logos etc, plus Solicitors fees for changing the Company name etc. That is not including the local county CPSA's who will be forced to pay for their name changes themselves.

A bit of further reading on the Committee reports show that the CPSA is just breaking even, with a small surplus for the last couple ofyears. - Where is this name change money coming from?

From what I've heard, there are going to be less members this year, so less income, yet more costs going out if it gets passed.

I'll be paying for mine this year, but I'm not at all happy about it - it isnt so much the £9 increase, it is the % rise - it wouldnt be too bad if I had a 20% pay rise, but when I get 2%, this rise stinks.

Any thoughts?

Alan.

[Lord Geordie]

I've had my renewal through for the CPSA - up from £46 to £55, - a near 20% increase.

I couldnt recall any mention of this in the Pull magazine, so had a look at the monthly Committee meetings. In one of them,October I think, there was mention of 'a modest increase in membership fees next year'.

I dont think 20% is anywhere near modest.

Anyway, at the shooting ground on Sunday, there was a lot of muttering about this increase, with many saying they are not bothering anymore, as, for the typical B and C class shooter, the CPSA gives virtually no benefit to them - they will never shoot for the County, never mind the Country, so why bother paying the extra fees to fund the CPSA.

There then followed a lot of discussion about how badly the CPSA were run, and then it turned to the name change. I wasnt too bothered myself about the name change, but then I was told the cost of doing it - many tens of thousands - from changing the letterheads/business cards to new signs outside head office, new artists fees for changing all of the differing logos etc, plus Solicitors fees for changing the Company name etc. That is not including the local county CPSA's who will be forced to pay for their name changes themselves.

A bit of further reading on the Committee reports show that the CPSA is just breaking even, with a small surplus for the last couple ofyears. - Where is this name change money coming from?

From what I've heard, there are going to be less members this year, so less income, yet more costs going out if it gets passed.

I'll be paying for mine this year, but I'm not at all happy about it - it isnt so much the £9 increase, it is the % rise - it wouldnt be too bad if I had a 20% pay rise, but when I get 2%, this rise stinks.

Any thoughts?

Alan.

 

Alan!

 

I told them to shove it up their jacksy when they slimed off to call themselves the Clay TARGET shooting association to try and distance themselves from the groups who shoot LIVE quarry incase they upset the anti's

 

It's plain the Anti's won't stop till ALL shooting related sports (in essence banning ALL guns) is in force nation wide. So infact distancing themselves and making them seem a seperate group only promotes the Anti's as this will only make them think they made an impact and will start working on the chink in the armour.

 

The can trample off for all i care they wont get another red cent from me i will join an insurance group that represents ALL shooting bodies not show a yellow streak.

 

LG

[chrisv]

I don't shoot registered targets, so I let my membership lapse a while ago.

The name change thing is pathetic, if it's not obvious to a shooter that they're not live quarry then they aren't fit to use a gun! The antis couldn't care less what we call it, they just want guns banned. The name change achieves nothing except making the cPsa look like idiots.

Chris

[Bagsy]

The CPSA is a bit like the lottery to me. I put money in to support what I thought was good cause and in the hope of getting something out of it. Turns out I have no idea where the money goes, they support a politically correct cause which I am against and I get absolutely nothing in return.

 

Now it seems they have increased the fees at an inflation busting rate and not even had the decency to consult the members who pay their wages!

 

If the board members who ‘run’ this poor shower are so embarrassed about their associations name then perhaps they should take up another sport.

 

I’m off to find insurance elsewhere. Rant over.

[Catamong]

Yes, the £9 per year increase is steep, and many members may ask what extra they are getting..??

 

I believe the CPSA have misjudged the mood of their members by imposing such a steep increase, still we all have an opportunity to turn up at the AGM in Peterborough on 24 March to vote against the silly name change.

 

I'm not sure that the name change will make any difference towards appeasing the Anti brigade, and as Jonesy reminded me the other day, the new name still contains the word "Shooting", which is a red rag to a bull to the Anti's.

 

Cat.

[MC]

I completely agree with lord geordie, the cpsa are nothing but a spineless bunch of wimps who are trying to distance themselves from the origins of the sport.

 

I suppose that you will no longer "KILL" a clay target it will be known as a hit.

 

They should ask all the people who were members why they haven't rejoined, rather thyan asking the members to vote on the name change.

 

Stand and fight you bunch of jessies

[pin]

I've only just joined, so I don't know any better.

 

However I do know that associations like this are governed by their members.

 

Like Cat says, the name change thing can be stopped. So can anything they do, they have to put it to the members and get a majority, but only a majority who turn up or vote.

 

These organisations get away with stuff like this because Joe Soap objects but won't do anything about it.

 

With flying the BMFA are the same, simply show up and moan and you are listened to, don't show up and they assume everyone agrees.

[alanlee]

Like Cat says, the name change thing can be stopped. So can anything they do, they have to put it to the members and get a majority, but only a majority who turn up or vote.

 

You can attend the AGM at Peterborough on March 24th, or, what is not being actively promoted, you have a 'proxy' vote. I am not sure how this works, but basically, someone else can vote for you.

I am now on the local CPSA committee.There is a lot of resentment there about the rulings from the head office. It seems there are 2 people running the operation, and what they says 'goes'.

They think it is a done thing about the name change, but are not publicly saying what the cost will be.When the membership hears of the cost, I think it will be swiftly dismissed.

As I see it, it is the 'Shooting' in the name that will offend people.The proposed change does nothing to address this.

Up until recently, I was really enthusiastic about CPSA shooting, now, after hearing some (alleged) improprietaries going on (cannot say here, as they are still alleged, not proven), which are against the members interests, I have become very jaded about the Management.

I'm still giving it a go this year, but if things carry on as they are, I will not be renewing in 2008.

Alan.

[Catamong]

Alan,

 

You're making some very valid points, but by opting out of the CPSA you are cutting your nose off to spite your face, because you can then no longer enter competitions.

 

Far better to try and make the changes from within by turning up at the AGM to vote against the name change..??

 

Here is an e-mail I sent to Phil Boakes late last year:

 

"I hope you don’t mind my feedback on issues I feel strongly about, you’ve asked for it often enough in “Pull†magazine.

 

I’m also uneasy about the name change from “Pigeon†to “Targetâ€, as this can only be seen by some as a move to pander to the PC brigade, and could be seen by many clay shooters who also quite legally shoot live quarry as the CPSA wishing to distance itself from such individuals..??

 

There are many serious issues that our sport has to face over the next few years, including Lead & Noise pollution, which could sink our sport, and I believe we need to stand together on this one.

 

I’m sure you remember the policy of maintaining a “dignified silence†following Dunblane, which was advocated by all of the UK shooting bodies, including the CPSA.

 

Look where that got us, a complete ban on handguns".

 

And here is the response I got:

 

In many ways you are right in that a move to target from pigeon is a political one. At a meeting last week with junior minister Vernon Coker, I was asked if people were still confusing clay pigeon shooting with the killing of live birds and do you know what, they are!!

 

Our debate took into consideration the association between blood sports and target shooting individuals. He is fully aware and further agrees that people should have the right to take up which ever legal pastimes they wish. He also assures me (if you believe a politician) that currently Government have no intention of banning game shooting. However should that day ever come about, then our sport which does feature in the Olympics, must be easily identified.

 

As an Association, we have no policy at present to distance ourselves from all shotgun users and I don't see any need unless the future of our sport depended upon that very fact, to change that policy.

 

I believe if we keep up the pressure then eventually, things may get changed.

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

Interestingly, my local club was phoned up by a reporter from the local paper who enquired how many rabbits were shot at the club each week - the club secretary said "ooh probably between 250 and 500 each week". The reporter had a mild fit and went into an anti blood sports rant. The response was "darling, just how stupid are you? We are a clay pigeon club as our club name suggests and we shoot clay pigeons and clay rabbits each week".

 

They are out there and they walk among us.

[pin]

There should be breeding licences for such thick gyppos

[webber]

Unless you want to enter CPSA competitions, I can see no reason for anyone who shoots live quarry supporting CPSA, who will not lift a finger to support live quarry shooting; hence the proposed name change.

 

Mungler has a point about attending the AGM, but vey few will bother. Its far easier to vote with your feet and wallet. BASC are not perfect, but they are on my side.

 

webber

[Cranfield]

I think the reference in the CPSA email to pigeon shooting being a "blood sport", says an awful lot about their true position.

 

It must be difficult for those shooters who enjoy clay shooting as much as live quarry shooting , to have come to terms with this hypocrisy.

I would certainly have a problem with paying subscriptions to an Organisation that appears to publicly condemn a sport I enjoy.

Fortunately, I am not good enough to enter CPSA competitions, so they can go to a warm place for all I care.

[Highlander]

Unless you want to enter CPSA competitions, I can see no reason for anyone who shoots live quarry supporting CPSA, who will not lift a finger to support live quarry shooting; hence the proposed name change.

 

Mungler has a point about attending the AGM, but vey few will bother. Its far easier to vote with your feet and wallet. BASC are not perfect, but they are on my side.

 

webber

 

I've said it before on here...unless you shoot at CPSA registered shoots you don't need them. It wouldn't surprise me if they are in league with the powers that be with the intention of taking over all shotgun shooting once our (live quarry) sports are banned. They never have and never will support those of us who shoot live quarry. DO NOT put money in their pockets, it's like joining the RSPCB

 

This current situation (at CPSA) is I believe the result of a power struggle at the top a couple of years ago when the long standing president/chairman was ousted. 'A new broom sweeps clean' You can also thank the marketing men for the name change and their cronies who will no doubt all earn very nicely from everything that such a name change involves. Anyone checked out how much the top brass salaries have increased???

[Jonsey]

I agree the increase in the membership fee is very steep. Apparently the targets that HQ had set for generating revenue from new memberships has not been met and so the obvious way for them to get that revenue would be to increase the membership fee and let the existing members meet the target shortfall. There is mention in the Board minutes sometime last year that the CPSA need to overall the software that controls the scores and averages of each shooter. The system is old, difficult for ground owners to use and costly to maintain. It was never intended to be used on this scale and the cost of the overhaul or brand new software being somewhere in the region of £30k although I personally think this is underestimated by several thousand as there was no mention of ongoing support and maintenance in that figure. Clearly with the proposed re-branding to the CTSA extra revenue will be required for this and they have increased the staff at HQ by a couple to deal with administrative shortfalls that occurred last year. Those of you that shot any of the Majors will know what a shambles the admin was

 

The proposed name change is tricky one in my mind. Changing to Target does better represent the sport as we do shoot targets other than simulated pigeon. Rabbit and Teal feature in every registered and open shoot now. As Cat pointed out, I think the contentious word is “Shooting†and simply changing Pigeon to Target will still not satisfy the “Tree Huggersâ€

 

As for distancing themselves from Game Shooting, I think you could be right there. Phil’s email to Cat even says there’s a possibility that should the need arise then they will change their policy. How sad that he didn’t say that the CPSA would help fight and stand up and be counted alongside the other forms of shooting. He clearly needs a PR training course.

[Country Boy]

I think many shotgun shooters join the CPSA simply for the insurance, their 'cover' is listed as :

All legal & recreational shotgun sports including:

1)Clay target shooting

2)Game shooting

3)Rough shooting

4)Vermin control

5)Wild fowling

6)All Rifle shooting sports and fishing activities

 

I think it is still far cheaper than rip-off BASC!

 

I am in the SCOTTISH ASSOCIATION for COUNTRY SPORTS (www.sacs.org.uk) which is far cheaper than all 'tothers.

Everyone who owns/uses a shotgun/rifle/air rifle should consider having insurance in the form of membership of one of the shooting sports groups.

 

Cheers, C.B.

[webber]

Im sure that SACS is a fine organisation, but to try and compare it to BASC is laughable. If all you want is insurance, shop around and go for the cheapest.

 

Try visiting the various organisations web sites, and investigate exactly what the organisation is about, and how it supports it members. BASC firearms department is very well staffed, and has been very helpfull to me on a number of occasions. I won't forget.

 

webber

[Highlander]

Im sure that SACS is a fine organisation, but to try and compare it to BASC is laughable. If all you want is insurance, shop around and go for the cheapest.

 

Try visiting the various organisations web sites, and investigate exactly what the organisation is about, and how it supports it members. BASC firearms department is very well staffed, and has been very helpfull to me on a number of occasions. I won't forget.

 

webber

 

webber, I could warm to you...does that make me a bad person

 

BASC get my vote. Not that I think they don't have their faults and I have been known to comment on them here on occassion BUT they are the largest, best organised and the most comprehensive fieldsports organisation we've got. Putting your money into some of the others is just watering the pot in my opinion. If market forces have anything to do with it the day will come when the smaller fry get swallowed up by the BASC and maybe by the CA which in my book wouldn't be a bad thing...united we stand!

 

I know most join for the insurance but for gods sake the money shouldn't be the issue and you do get a bit more for that from BASC. BUT we're talking about life here, your enjoyment of it and you've only got the one chance, get on with it and hang the cost.

[Browning]

I enquired of the CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) a few years ago, about shooting non-competitively at a couple of their registered shoots which are local to me.

I was told by the CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) in no uncertain terms "You will not be allowed to shoot any course that is CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) registered, even non-competitively

unkless you are a CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) member.

 

So I dully paid my £46 and joined, and shot at the two local shoots regularly throughout the year, and renewed last year and shot at the two local shoots regularly throughout the year.

 

I got speaking to both the relevant shoot owners in the pub one night, and when I asked the question "Why is it that you have to be a CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) member to shoot

a registered course at your grounds even non-competitively ?

 

To which they answered...altogether now...."You Don't! It's not up to the CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next), it's up to the individual ground owner. The CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) just tell people that so they'll get more members!!!"

 

The CPSA (or whatever they're going to be called next) will not be getting any more money off me.

 

The BASC however, will still get there's, as they have done since the WAGBI days.

[webber]

Highlander

 

You''r not a bad person, you can't be, as I am sure that we think alike.

 

I agree that having a number of smaller splinter type groups, all trying to claim that they basically cover the same general aspects of shooting and fieldsports does not do the combined membership justice.

 

I also think that a merger between BASC and CA wouild probably be beneficial to all conserned. However is you study the balance sheets foe both organisations you will find that BASC are basically cash richish, and the CA owe money all over the shop (comments made on research about 2 years ago). So I cant see BASC wanting to take on a relative lame duck. Whilst I could see CA trying to grab BASC, which I seriously doubt would ever be allowed to happen.

 

webber

[Country Boy]

Webber -

 

I was'nt trying to compare the SACS with the BASC, however I understand that the SACS, the Scottish Gamekeepers *** and NGO were all formed by disgruntled (maybe not the right word) former BASC members and officials which is a tad worrying don't think?

 

Anyway I do tend to agree with you that the BASC does have a hidden agenda.

 

C.B.