Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Well, I am back in Kazakhstan for the next 30 days, so thought I would start a bit of a debate. The bottom line is this. Currently, it is illegal to shoot water fowl with lead, as we all know. There also appears a rumbling to push all shooters in the direction of non-toxic shot as people are regularly flouting the lead ban. I have personally never been on a driven duck shoot where everyone used the correct shot type. I only know 3 wildfowlers and all three tell me they use lead, but keep a couple of non-toxics in their pockets in case they get asked questions. I cannot speak for all the fowlers, as I say, I only know 3. However, the fact is such things do happen. The number of people who shoot wildfowl is only a small percentage of shooters in the UK. So, my question is this - if those shooting wildfowl/ducks etc (whatever generic term you wish to use) do not all follow the rules, rather than ban lead, why not ban shooting such quarry?? Fewer of us will be 'punished' AND the 'problem' is instantly resolved. Thoughts? B06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Ban wildfowling because some game shooters can't or won't use a non toxic alternative for 'duck drives'? My plan would be much simpler..ban duck drives from all game shoots.....sorted. I would also say that if you know 3 'wildfowlers' who are using lead shot you really should report them to their club. Every true wildfowler would thank you for that. Edited March 2, 2014 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 People have been known to shoot deer with air rifles, do you then ban deer shooting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 People have been known to shoot deer with air rifles, do you then ban deer shooting? No more than we should ban all dogs because some bite children. The downside of this debate is that some dumb Moderator has made it partisan, by moving it into the Wildfowling Section. Many people don't look here, so it will cease to be objective - or emotive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodcock11 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 In Northern Ireland and I think Scotland, the laws on lead shot are different. With us, it is habitat rather than species related so, for example, we can shoot duck with led shot over farmland but obviously not over water and wetlands. It seems to make more sense - what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 In Northern Ireland and I think Scotland, the laws on lead shot are different. With us, it is habitat rather than species related so, for example, we can shoot duck with led shot over farmland but obviously not over water and wetlands. It seems to make more sense - what do you think? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It shows up anyway due to the New Content button. Better to change to the Scottish Law and this one has been done. Interesting to see Mr Ali suggesting that lead is the big issue - I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) The only fowlers you know are all idiots. Often the topic in the marsh car park is new powders and wads for pushing steel faster, new steel loads etc. We comply with the rules because we value our sport. Quite frankly i'd be more than a little miffed if wildfowling got sold down the line because of a bunch of idiotic game shooters. Stick to the laws or face the consequences, don't take it out on another form of shooting. The solution is not to ban one type of shooting, just because wildfowlers are a small minority doesnt mean you can just get rid of us. If such suggestion where to come to force, i'd fight it tooth and nail as i suspect alot of other fowlers would. Game shoots might become a little unpopular with wildfowlers if it happended! I don't know the solution to making game shooters comply, but something needs to be done Edited March 2, 2014 by Big Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 OK, I will offer an alternative - ban driven shooting of ducks etc. Clearly some 'fowlers are not towing the line - I know three!! - but what makes you say it is a bigger problem amongst the game shooters?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 OK, I will offer an alternative - ban driven shooting of ducks etc. Clearly some 'fowlers are not towing the line - I know three!! - but what makes you say it is a bigger problem amongst the game shooters?? How about we don't ban anything? Simply because the survey done found lead in duck at game dealers, duck that was quite clearly got from game shoots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ban wildfowling because some game shooters can't or won't use a non toxic alternative for 'duck drives'? My plan would be much simpler..ban duck drives from all game shoots.....sorted. I would also say that if you know 3 'wildfowlers' who are using lead shot you really should report them to their club. Every true wildfowler would thank you for that. Like the man says, a true wildfowler who found this information out will insure the book is thrown at any such an individual and their chances of joining another club in the area should be about zero. Unlike your impression (which I doubt is fact or representative) we take the matter very, very seriously out on the saltmarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The downside of this debate is that some dumb Moderator has made it partisan, by moving it into the Wildfowling Section. Many people don't look here, so it will cease to be objective - or emotive Unfortunately it had to be moved from Off Topic, because some idiot had posted it in the only section on PW that says "Talk about things other than shooting" in the subtitle. I hope General Shooting Matters is more to your liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Unfortunately it had to be moved from Off Topic, because some idiot had posted it in the only section on PW that says "Talk about things other than shooting" in the subtitle. I hope General Shooting Matters is more to your liking. This 'idiot' is happy with it here, than you oh sarcastic Satanic Demon - or Mod, if you prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Like the man says, a true wildfowler who found this information out will insure the book is thrown at any such an individual and their chances of joining another club in the area should be about zero. Unlike your impression (which I doubt is fact or representative) we take the matter very, very seriously out on the saltmarsh I am not sure why you doubt what I said (in relation to fowlers breaking the rules) as fact; that is a somewhat ignorant retort. I have nothing to gain from making such things up. If someone can PM me the contact details of the Kent Wildfowling group I will happily forward the names to the person in charge - such behaviour damages all shooters. As others have said, game shooters also break the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I am not sure why you doubt what I said (in relation to fowlers breaking the rules) as fact; that is a somewhat ignorant retort. I have nothing to gain from making such things up. If someone can PM me the contact details of the Kent Wildfowling group I will happily forward the names to the person in charge - such behaviour damages all shooters. As others have said, game shooters also break the rules. http://www.kentwildfowlers.co.uk/homeframeintro.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 http://www.kentwildfowlers.co.uk/homeframeintro.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangford wildfowler Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 In Northern Ireland and I think Scotland, the laws on lead shot are different. With us, it is habitat rather than species related so, for example, we can shoot duck with led shot over farmland but obviously not over water and wetlands. It seems to make more sense - what do you think? Woodcock11 I personally think that are laws on shooting wildfowl are a lot better than on the main land it saves having to buy steel carts a lot of the time when I would say most of the time we would flight ducks inland anyway jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) My plan would be much simpler..ban duck drives from all game shoots.....sorted. As an avid game shooter I'm all for this, surprising as it may seem. It is the best suggestion I've heard yet. I have lost count of the number of times I have been on a game shoot only to be presented with the 'flight pond' drive! The ducks are almost tame and come waddling out of the margins as soon as they spot the guns in the belief they're going to be fed. After the beaters have flapped their arms, whooped and hollered themselves into a sweaty heap with little or no result with the exception of one or two waist high ducks causing one or two guns to twitch with anticipation, and the beaters to twitch in fear, the dogs are 'sent in'. One or two dogs actually get close but the duck simply dives, leaving the keen but knackered dog to switch directions in search of another, which waits 'til the dog is temptingly close then does the same. Eventually most of the ducks are driven out of the pond onto the field where the fitter dogs and younger beaters chase them around until the keeper blows his whistle.He's now in a bad mood. On the rare occassion they do 'get up' they either fly round in circles just above head height where any shot duck has to have the wad extracted before presenting the carcass to the game cart, or they 'get up' and ****** off into the next county, or over a neighboring shoot who take great delight in the pub later, in telling the 'keeper how many ducks they shot on their shoot that afternoon.The 'keeper at this point is making a mental note to round them up into the rear of the horsebox and shoot them in the head with his air rifle.(The ducks, not the neighboring syndicate) Or is that just my experience? Edited March 2, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 How about we don't ban anything? Simply because the survey done found lead in duck at game dealers, duck that was quite clearly got from game shoots. Has anyone seen any evidence to substantiate this 'report' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 How about we don't ban anything? Simply because the survey done found lead in duck at game dealers, duck that was quite clearly got from game shoots. Has anyone seen any evidence to substantiate this 'report' ? Lead shot was found to be present in a high percentage of duck purchased from game dealers . A rule of most wildfowling clubs is that fowl cannot be sold , the amount of duck shot on the foreshore by wildfowlers would be minuscule compared to the amount shot on duck drives at organised shoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The only fowlers you know are all idiots. Often the topic in the marsh car park is new powders and wads for pushing steel faster, new steel loads etc. We comply with the rules because we value our sport. Quite frankly i'd be more than a little miffed if wildfowling got sold down the line because of a bunch of idiotic game shooters. Stick to the laws or face the consequences, don't take it out on another form of shooting. Agreed on all points. It's well documented that the ducks tested came from game shoots, ergo it's game shooters who shot them with lead. I am not sure why you doubt what I said (in relation to fowlers breaking the rules) as fact; that is a somewhat ignorant retort. I have nothing to gain from making such things up. If someone can PM me the contact details of the Kent Wildfowling group I will happily forward the names to the person in charge - such behaviour damages all shooters. As others have said, game shooters also break the rules. Kent Wildfowlers....I'm quite certain Alan Jarrett would go bananas and the members concened banned for life IF this was proven. Which it probably won't be as it's your word against theirs, I'd still make the report though just so they know that the club are on to them. All wildfowling clubs I've had any involvement or contact with have an immediate ban in place for anyone caught using lead on 'fowl, and all 'fowlers I know rigidly stick to non toxic loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 As an avid game shooter I'm all for this, surprising as it may seem. It is the best suggestion I've heard yet. I have lost count of the number of times I have been on a game shoot only to be presented with the 'flight pond' drive! The ducks are almost tame and come waddling out of the margins as soon as they spot the guns in the belief they're going to be fed. After the beaters have flapped their arms, whooped and hollered themselves into a sweaty heap with little or no result with the exception of one or two waist high ducks causing one or two guns to twitch with anticipation, and the beaters to twitch in fear, the dogs are 'sent in'. One or two dogs actually get close but the duck simply dives, leaving the keen but knackered dog to switch directions in search of another, which waits 'til the dog is temptingly close then does the same. Eventually most of the ducks are driven out of the pond onto the field where the fitter dogs and younger beaters chase them around until the keeper blows his whistle.He's now in a bad mood. On the rare occassion they do 'get up' they either fly round in circles just above head height where any shot duck has to have the wad extracted before presenting the carcass to the game cart, or they 'get up' and ****** off into the next county, or over a neighboring shoot who take great delight in the pub later, in telling the 'keeper how many ducks they shot on their shoot that afternoon.The 'keeper at this point is making a mental note to round them up into the rear of the horsebox and shoot them in the head with his air rifle.(The ducks, not the neighboring syndicate) Or is that just my experience? If your presented with tame birds, leave it is unlikely to improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 If your presented with tame birds, leave it is unlikely to improveI havent been in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's well documented that the ducks tested came from game shoots, ergo it's game shooters who shot them with lead. Can you point me to these documents as, from my limited reading, the samples were not obtained directly from UK game shoots and nothing I have read puts the blame squarely at the door of game shoots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Well, I am back in Kazakhstan for the next 30 days, so thought I would start a bit of a debate. The bottom line is this. Currently, it is illegal to shoot water fowl with lead, as we all know. There also appears a rumbling to push all shooters in the direction of non-toxic shot as people are regularly flouting the lead ban. I have personally never been on a driven duck shoot where everyone used the correct shot type. I only know 3 wildfowlers and all three tell me they use lead, but keep a couple of non-toxics in their pockets in case they get asked questions. I cannot speak for all the fowlers, as I say, I only know 3. However, the fact is such things do happen. The number of people who shoot wildfowl is only a small percentage of shooters in the UK. So, my question is this - if those shooting wildfowl/ducks etc (whatever generic term you wish to use) do not all follow the rules, rather than ban lead, why not ban shooting such quarry? ? Fewer of us will be 'punished' AND the 'problem' is instantly resolved. Thoughts? B06 I think your comments on an open forum are , at best, unhelpful. I also think you should report the three wildfowlers you know to both basc and the police and see what gets done about it. If you're not prepared to do this I dont see the point of the post. Just my opinion and no offence intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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