hedd-wyn Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Got a box of these old 16g cartridges over the weekend off one of my RFD's and I'm a bit confused. On the box it clearly says that they are 65mm cartridges, perfect I thought because my 16g has 2 1/2 chambers. It wasn't until I got home I realised that they were in fact much longer than 65mm, the I have put one next to a 70mm cartridge at the bottom picture and it's clearly much longer (apologies for the massive photos, not sure how to resize) Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's what you get for being a tightwad and buying £1.99 a box cartridges Have you measured the 70mm one to ensure it is 70mm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) By any chance is one of them a rolled turnover? Edit: PS Don't forget that the sizes relate to the cartridge length when fired. Also, the chamber length is 2.5" so it is acceptable that the cartridge may well be 25/8" - 67 or 67.5mm - Have a look at a box of Eley 'Pigeon' as an example (albeit these being 12 bore. Edited March 4, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 i would say they are 76mm [3"] here's another pic for comparison all be it these are 12 gauge but hopefully shows the size difference. atb aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 i would say they are 76mm [3"] here's another pic for comparison all be it these are 12 gauge but hopefully shows the size difference. atb aga man Assuming (dangerous) the box was full, can you fit 3" cartridges in a 21/2" cartridge box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Assuming (dangerous) the box was full, can you fit 3" cartridges in a 21/2" cartridge box? the op's picture is big but the box does appear to be wide must admit i know very little about 16g, not even sure there is a 3" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) By any chance is one of them a rolled turnover? Edit: PS Don't forget that the sizes relate to the cartridge length when fired. Also, the chamber length is 2.5" so it is acceptable that the cartridge may well be 25/8" - 67 or 67.5mm - Have a look at a box of Eley 'Pigeon' as an example (albeit these being 12 bore. The box states "crimp closure" OP, measure the complete length unfired and add around 7-8mm for your crimp on the 16g it certainly looks 70+mm Edited March 4, 2014 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 The box states "crimp closure" Yep, but it's the only answer I could come up with. However, if that's the price that the OP paid (?), he's quids in - the same box, empty, went for £4.99 on Ebay in August last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's what you get for being a tightwad and buying £1.99 a box cartridges Have you measured the 70mm one to ensure it is 70mm ? wish they were that cheap now days! Just measured the 70mm (give or take after shot) seems practically accurate. I'l measure them now and post some more 'giant' photos Appreciate the input so far everyone. Yep, but it's the only answer I could come up with. However, if that's the price that the OP paid (?), he's quids in - the same box, empty, went for £4.99 on Ebay in August last. I was practically given them for free because of their age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Just measured one of them, and the bottom photo the cartridge is sat next to a 65mm Gamebore 12g Edited March 4, 2014 by hedd-wyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 By any chance is one of them a rolled turnover? Edit: PS Don't forget that the sizes relate to the cartridge length when fired. Also, the chamber length is 2.5" so it is acceptable that the cartridge may well be 25/8" - 67 or 67.5mm - Have a look at a box of Eley 'Pigeon' as an example (albeit these being 12 bore. So can 67mm be used in a 2.5" chamber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yes. So can 67mm be used in a 2.5" chamber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yes. That's good to know, kind've broadens my selection of cartridges. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) My old eyes are having difficulty but it looks to them as that tape is in 1/32"s. In which case the cartridge closed appears to be 23/8" which is 60.325mm. So plus 7mm or so for the crimp, is the 67mm which would be the norm for a 2.5" chamber. However, would someone with younger eyes check? Edit: Give in, have to say it; in the back of my mind a paper case and a RTO is screaming at me - it's the 'waterproof' that's doing it. Still, probably way out as usual. Edited March 4, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwade545 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 if you can show us a pic of the top of the cartridge it will help to determine if it is closed with a start ( normal crimp like the game bore ail probably have) or a rolled over crimp with a paper top. The start crimp opens up quite a bit, but the rolled over only add very little to the length one fired. As you can see both of these are 70mm, but one is longer and had a rolled top as a posed to the blue one with a star crimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 if you can show us a pic of the top of the cartridge it will help to determine if it is closed with a start ( normal crimp like the game bore ail probably have) or a rolled over crimp with a paper top. The start crimp opens up quite a bit, but the rolled over only add very little to the length one fired. As you can see both of these are 70mm, but one is longer and had a rolled top as a posed to the blue one with a star crimp. Hi They're crimped. Thought about emailing Eley for an explanation but after reading the 'new eley amber cartridges' thread I don't think there's much point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Its the fired length that matters and there is some tolerances to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hi They're crimped. Thought about emailing Eley for an explanation but after reading the 'new eley amber cartridges' thread I don't think there's much point Can you confirm the closed length is 23/8" (c60mm)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 In the 70`s & early 80`s the cases were longer than the marked length.Eley just loaded them to the relevent pressure. Zillions were used with no problems,so don`t worry about it all ! I still have a few boxes of 12g Grand Prix and Maximum loaded like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 In the 70`s & early 80`s the cases were longer than the marked length.Eley just loaded them to the relevent pressure. Zillions were used with no problems,so don`t worry about it all ! I still have a few boxes of 12g Grand Prix and Maximum loaded like this. Remmington super mag 3 1/2" 12's are also made over length, they often fail to fit though the ejection port as a result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can you confirm the closed length is 23/8" (c60mm)? Yes that's correct. In the 70`s & early 80`s the cases were longer than the marked length.Eley just loaded them to the relevent pressure. Zillions were used with no problems,so don`t worry about it all ! I still have a few boxes of 12g Grand Prix and Maximum loaded like this. A guy I shoot with told me this also thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 To be sure why not sacrifice one, use a pointy knife to peel back the crimp, flattern out and then measure total length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 To be sure why not sacrifice one, use a pointy knife to peel back the crimp, flattern out and then measure total length Good idea Paul, I'l get on it after work. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Ok, just opened the crimp on one to mimic a spent cartridge and it measures 70mm Edited March 6, 2014 by hedd-wyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Ok, just opened the crimp on one to mimic a spent cartridge and it measures 70mm Makes sense on the grounds that I've just measured a 67.5mm Eley Grand Prix closed at 21/4". So by starting off 1/8" (c3mm) longer as your 23/8", the 2/3/4" or 70mm is to be expected. One can only assume that the other cartridge shown in your original post had a deep crimp. Edited March 6, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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