paddymax123 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hi guys I have come across a problem that I am not sure of the best way to handle it, sorry for the long story but want to make a full picture. Two weeks ago I was given permission to shoot rabbits over a stables using either air rifle or my suppressed .410 Mossberg due to making sure that I make minimal noise possible. Two of the fields are being rented and I was not told until the person walked into the field and shouted at me. I politely replied by saying hello and introducing my self and then showed the signed permission from the landowner. i said that i would text her to let her know if i was going to shoot over those fields and gave her my card with number and as well as my insurance details. Today i went for a walk around to try for a few rabbits so before setting off from my house i gave the person renting the two fields on the permission a text to say i would be there and she left a message on my phone (couldn't answer as i was driving). when i got there and listened to the message it was very abusive saying how i was banned from her fields, she would call the police if i go in the field, i was stressing the horses, that i am breaking the law ending with her saying she is looking forward to having an argument with me next time she see me. Before i go back to the land owner on the warpath about her tenant can any say where i stand legally as i believe that i am in the right especially as i have kept to all agreements made and i have a contract with the landowner saying all land they own and under their control and none of the horses seem at all bothered about any noise at all. what would you do in this situation? Cheers guys all advice welcome as i want to sort this problem out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hi guys I have come across a problem that I am not sure of the best way to handle it, sorry for the long story but want to make a full picture. Two weeks ago I was given permission to shoot rabbits over a stables using either air rifle or my suppressed .410 Mossberg due to making sure that I make minimal noise possible. Two of the fields are being rented and I was not told until the person walked into the field and shouted at me. I politely replied by saying hello and introducing my self and then showed the signed permission from the landowner. i said that i would text her to let her know if i was going to shoot over those fields and gave her my card with number and as well as my insurance details. Today i went for a walk around to try for a few rabbits so before setting off from my house i gave the person renting the two fields on the permission a text to say i would be there and she left a message on my phone (couldn't answer as i was driving). when i got there and listened to the message it was very abusive saying how i was banned from her fields, she would call the police if i go in the field, i was stressing the horses, that i am breaking the law ending with her saying she is looking forward to having an argument with me next time she see me. Before i go back to the land owner on the warpath about her tenant can any say where i stand legally as i believe that i am in the right especially as i have kept to all agreements made and i have a contract with the landowner saying all land they own and under their control and none of the horses seem at all bothered about any noise at all. what would you do in this situation? Cheers guys all advice welcome as i want to sort this problem out. I would first of all go back to the LAND OWNER and ask their views with regards to the attitude of what appears to be their Tennant. If they are of the opinion that the Tennant is being unreasonable, then by all means, carry on. They may be a bit cautious on the grounds that they may not want to lose or upset, what is a regular source of income. I once had a similar problem with a 'horsey' Tennant, who claimed that my shooting a field some 300 yards away was upsetting her horse. The difference was, I had been shooting the ground for a good number of years before the horses arrived, problem over. It did not stop her from phoning the Police and complaining. I was one step ahead and had already notified the Police of my intention to shoot and the possible complaint coming in. As I was in the right, they did not even bother attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddymax123 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 cheers for the advice it is very much appreciated I will go and visit the land owner and have a chat with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 As above and always remain polite. The landowner is the key to resolving the issue and it is them who need to advise the tenant. You are perfectly within your rights to shoot but it depends on the lease and the concern the landowner may have of losing the tenant. I would avoid being the one in the middle and if the landowner wont explain to the tenant, I would inform the police, in advance, again as above - make sure you have all your stuff with you when you return as she will call the police. Might be worth having a word with your wildlife crime officer before you go again if you have one - if not ask for an incident no when you ring the police. In truth, if the owner isnt prepared to tell the tenant how it is you wont get any peace or enjoy it - he has to back you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) I would be a little bit careful if I was you. If the fields are being rented out, then technically you need permission from the 'occupier' of the land, and that is the person renting, NOT the owner. Being on a piece of land with any sort of gun if you don't have permission is armed trespass. Not somewhere you want to be, I'm sure. The only way in which this does not apply is if the landowner has reserved all the shooting rights, in which case the landowner gives permission. If this is the case here, then the landowner needs to sort it out with the renter, not you. Edited June 13, 2014 by robbiep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Sounds a bit like you are being used as a pawn in a landlord tenant dispute to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Cripes - I sympathise. Most horse owners are worried about a leg break from bunny burrows. Even if you could avoid her two fields if she's that irrational she'll always cause problems and 'look for any old excuse'. Firstly contact your landowner to let them know that there has been a problem. Avoid conflict. Check with the land owner to make sure exactly where your legal position is and what they want you to do. Ask if the landowner will talk to the tenant, so (considering who has the pest control rights) the tenant is in no doubt as to what will happen. Log your visit and the issue with the police control desk so they know what is what. Normally I don't agree with this but then at least you've got your side of the story out first rather than being on the defensive if she makes a complaint. Finally.......avoid conflict and walk away if she kicks off. As an aside, I often have to have words with people who are 'off the footpath' shall we say. Despite ALWAYS initially being polite and never swearing or threatening them it amazes me how many people will later claim I have been aggressive (despite the odd one threatening to set their dog on me). Firstly it is not in my nature and secondly I'm not a fool....behaving like that doesn't create the sort of world I want to live in. As a result I've taken to carry a MUVI lapel camera which I clip on when needed. It might not be a bad idea as often it will be her word against yours. Sad old world but you have to cover your ****. Happy shooting chap - take comfort from the fact that you sound by far the better person! Edited June 14, 2014 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Cover you're behind let plod know about the message if possible get FEO to listen to it, that way when the "he threatened me with a massive sniper rifle" claims start they know where they are coming from. Be a different story when old naggy puts a leg in a burrow and breaks it....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 dealt with this a few times due to being in the horsey world... try and record any conversations just in case but explain that the rabbits digging up the place could lead to a broken leg for her little pony ....worked for me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraivi Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Must be the horsey thing, I lost a really productive permission, comprising of two 22 acre meadows, hedged into paddocks. Was usually grazed by sheep, it got leased out to next doors expanding livery concern and the new tenant despises shooting, it was all very amicable, the permission I had was from the outgoing leasee. I went by recently and saw loads of rabbits there. Absolutely gutted about it, but until a pony breaks its leg down a burrow , I got no chance of getting back in there for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 as said it should be contained in the Heads Of Terms between landlord and tenant, i would guess it might be a licence rather than a lease but regardless of that it will give direction on who can do what, who is responsible for what and to whom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I have horses on my permission, however the owner asked me to just ignore them as they will need to get used to the noise. Quite amusing things really, they'll often come over to see whats happening. They also have these coat things on at night that reflect light when lamping so I don't shoot them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickshot Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Depends on the type of tenancy agreement, as to whether the sporting rights are included. If they are not, then your permission from the landowner should suffice, however notifying the tenant is always a good option. If they are included, then your permission means nothing, as even though the land owner has given you permission to shoot on it, she hasn't got the right any more to give you permission. Have a chat with the landowner, and then if that goes alright, arrange a meeting with landowner and tenant. QS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I have horses on my permission, however the owner asked me to just ignore them as they will need to get used to the noise. Quite amusing things really, they'll often come over to see whats happening. They also have these coat things on at night that reflect light when lamping so I don't shoot them! Yeah. We've got a retired racehorse grazing on one field at present for a friend. When she picked it up, she was told that it's absolutely terrified of gunshots, and it would be a major problem. So, I started out just using the 410 if rabbiting up there, 2 weeks ago. It just wanders over whenever I take a shot, curious as anything. I say hello to it, a rub on the nose, and it wanders off again ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have horses on my permission, however the owner asked me to just ignore them as they will need to get used to the noise. Quite amusing things really, they'll often come over to see whats happening. They also have these coat things on at night that reflect light when lamping so I don't shoot them! Are they that hard to identify without the coats on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 So what happened? Did you speak to the landowner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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