Benefits Britain:Life on the dole

[kdubya]

If you really subscribe to the myth that life on benefits is so easy try it! Do you never stop to question why Mail/ Sun peddle these stories.?

Why 5th rate TV channels make these bias programmes.

Propaganda peddled by Govenment of the day. It's far better to have citizens of this country demonising the sad people who are in these shows.MPs don't want "us" asking questions about, housing, NHS, immigration, low pay, cost of living,

 

Yes we "all" know of people who take advantage of the system. For every example you may have of someone playing the game, I can show you a dozen people the system has failed. ESA/PIP- ATOS. Mandatory revision before you can appeal. Local Housing allowance Caps how much hosing benefit you can have- private landlords hike up rents- you make up the short fall Or you have to live in sub standard properties damp infestation no heating etc etc

Before I forget Plasma TVs yes some do have them, thanks to Wonga, Briitehouse Apr 1800- 2017 percent.

Welcome to Welfare Britain. Try it you won't like it- promise you

Royall 22lr

Nasty man trying to spoil the image of the wonderful life those on benefit must have according to the view the majority here have ( via a very blinkered outlook I might add)

 

 

KW

 

That sums it up, Im amazed that a gross percentage of the populace fall for it... ..

 

 

Im not.its something to do with seeing past the end of your nose, an optional extra to most.

 

KW

Edited June 25, 2014 by kdubya

[islandgun]

yes agreed I remember similar bad press about immigrants, it amazing how many have fallen for that as well

[pegasus bridge]

yes agreed I remember similar bad press about immigrants, it amazing how many have fallen for that as well

And what nice clothes the emperor is wearing 😉

[keg]

There is a view that the minimum wage has actually brought wages at the bottom end of the economy down.

 

Before, the job paid what it paid. Now most employers at that end just quote the minimum wage.

 

 

http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/archivestory.php/aid/2217/The_minimum_wage:_Making_it_pay.html

[Royal22lr]

Keg, graph tells only half the story. It dosent as an example show hours worked, cost of utilities, cost of housing, travel chidcare costs.

Our country tops up low wages with working- child tax credits. Housing benefit etc.

What is needed is a living wage for all. Stop muti- national paying staff minimum pay. This drives up welfare bill in form of child working tax hb etc ?

If employers pay a living wage staff will be better prepared to work. More you work the more you earn it's not rocket science?

In response to the earlier post( taxpayers are paying for benefits ) a lot of claimants are former tax payers.

FACT more welfare payments goes to them folks in work than them that DONT work. Dave and nick and co don't want too many of us knowing that. It weakens there argument.

Hazard a guess how much is under claimed in benefits? Now do it in relation to Tax evasion.

Now who are the feckless ones?

Royal 22lr

[silver pigeon69]

ok, i have put my tin hat on and await the incoming flak!

 

my comments relate the long term unemployed, not the genuine people on sick or disability, who i think should receive more!

 

i beleive that the benefit system should be there to temporarily help people in need, but should not in any way offer an incentive to stay on them. it should give them an incentive NOT to stay on them and to try and get off of them asap.

 

All the people who say that its hard on benefits are obviously not seeing what i am! maybe i need to go to specsavers?or am looking through frosted glass!

i went to a property yesterday. The tenant is long term unemployed and she has a 20yr old son and 14yr old daughter. she has not worked for at least 12yrs prob longer.

She has a 50inch tv in front room, 42inch in sons bedroom, and 42inch in daughters bedroom. Brand new leather sofa. Full Sky package. 5 mobiles, 3 on contract!

Large dog and a Parrot in a large (£200) cage! she smokes Silk Cut, not roll ups and the fridge is always full!

it must be hell on benefits!!

 

Edit: Dog is not in cage with Parrot

Edited June 25, 2014 by silver pigeon69

[Gimlet]

Our country tops up low wages with working- child tax credits. Housing benefit etc.

 

 

Another way of looking at it is that our country drives down disposable income by over taxing society to fund an out of control state sector and by artificially inflating the cost of utilities through political interference.

[oscarsdad]

To over simplify it, there are too many people here for the amount that the job market can sustain....uncontrolled immigration which was actively encouraged by Bliar and his mates to import more labour voters and the state he got us into combined with an over inflated sense of entitlement and people now thinking that the country owes them a living rather than they owe the country gets us where we are...I dont know what the solution is and I think there is a real risk that people may not like the talk about cuts and austerity and will blindly vote the left back in who will make the situation much much worse....

[Royal22lr]

Another way of looking at it is that our country drives down disposable income by over taxing society to fund an out of control state sector and by artificially inflating the cost of utilities through political interference.

 

"Out of control state sector" Gimlet care to expand your view?

 

Thanks

Royal 22lr

[aris]

"Out of control state sector" Gimlet care to expand your view?

Thanks

Royal 22lr

There are too any people working for the state - and they are very expensive when you take gold plated pensions into account.

[Gimlet]

"Out of control state sector" Gimlet care to expand your view?

 

Thanks

Royal 22lr

 

As Aris has said.

A cripplingly expensive, materially unproductive workforce which is generated by Government that is grossly distended and tries to do too much. That involves itself in and interferes with far too many aspects in the lives of private individuals and private businesses. A governing system and centralising philosophy that fundamentally distrusts the ability and moral right of private individuals to make their own decisions and control their own lives within the law. A deceitful, paternalistic governing mindset that infantilises the population with promises of jam tomorrow and wilfully fosters unrealistic expectations for electoral advantage which it attempts to fund through debt and the theft of the life chances of future generations.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Gimlet

[keg]

The public sector increased dramatically under new communism. In some areas of the country, the state is the biggest employer.

 

Classic socialism,get the populace beholden to the state in every way.

 

Why does teh NHS need so many managers for example, seemed to work quite well without them for many years.

 

Regional assemblies? labour tried that in Yorkshire and we voted against it.

 

How much has devolution cost us ( and is going to cost us)

 

The list is endless

[STOTTO]

In defence of the indefensible

 

In an attempt by the ruling classes to create the perfect political ‘perpetual motion machine’ they have instead as is always going to be the case constructed an ‘Heath Robinson’ Frankenstein monster that is held together by the cohesive power of political ambition, administrative ineptitude and factional infighting to name but a few.

 

And as such is always being pulled in several directions at once, the internal stresses of which cause the wheels to keep falling off every time an attempt is made to put it on the right course and just as it builds up a head of steam to go down the right track it pops a rivet at ‘general election time’ and reverts back to what it was before, just another heap of policy scrap! Until the next lot comes along of course!!

 

‘Business as usual’, I believe is the term used!

[brett1985]

The type, of whom we are writing about would think that KPI's are a new form of salted peanut.

 

 

absolutely love this comment... first time ive heard KPI's mentioned in a benefit thread.

 

maybe, as a starting point, we should only allow benefits up to the amount of the minimum wage? that way there couldnt be any question of the state treating people on benefits as second class citizens as they would be on no less than any other person in the country. would also be good if those on benefits had to do at least 16 hours voluntary work a week to be able to claim said moneys. there a plenty of jobs out there that could be done by people that usually do nothing with their spare time, or are too "ill" to work a normal job.

 

i like the idea of food vouchers, as mentioned earlier. would work a treat.

 

i do truly believe that to be able to draw upon our countries finances you must either give, or have previously given, something in return.

 

just my opinion though.

Edited June 26, 2014 by brett1985

[aris]

i like the idea of food vouchers, as mentioned earlier. would work a treat.

 

In the US (in some states) they give you a special debit card. It doesn't let you buy junk food or booze, ciggies, etc. It can be got around though - buy loads of commodities, sell them for half price, take that money and buy booze. I like to think that the system we have now benefits far more people than abuse it - no matter what you put in place, those that want to abuse the system will find a way.

Edited June 26, 2014 by aris

[Royal22lr]

Brett 1985

Firstly , people that work in the 3rd sector Law centres Citizens advice ( we advise people In relation to welfare) have been working with KPI's past twenty plus years.

Secondly minimum wage, because of mw more people IN WORK claim more benefits than those that are OUT of work.

Thirdly yes yes people who could work should be " undertaking community work" remember late 70s Community programme that sorted people out. But it takes commitment and money to do something that delivers positive outcomes.

 

Far cheaper to demonise people on benefits. What about pensioners they claim benefits on TOP of there SR Pension,

Should we give them food vouchers instead of top up benefits?

I agree, totally with your last statement. If you haven't paid in (say for 5 or xxx years) to the system you don't take out. If your referring to immigrants I fully agree. However what about the 8 year old boy who is brain damaged ( fell from tree) will never work ever he ain't paid in. Do we leave him to die he will need benefits for rest of his days. Just my view from my job

Royal 22lr

[TaxiDriver]

Failing the above, bromide in all Costcutter and Spar branded tea, Special brew and White Lightening

[kdubya]

Brett 1985

Firstly , people that work in the 3rd sector Law centres Citizens advice ( we advise people In relation to welfare) have been working with KPI's past twenty plus years.

Secondly minimum wage, because of mw more people IN WORK claim more benefits than those that are OUT of work.

Thirdly yes yes people who could work should be " undertaking community work" remember late 70s Community programme that sorted people out. But it takes commitment and money to do something that delivers positive outcomes.

 

Far cheaper to demonise people on benefits. What about pensioners they claim benefits on TOP of there SR Pension,

Should we give them food vouchers instead of top up benefits?

I agree, totally with your last statement. If you haven't paid in (say for 5 or xxx years) to the system you don't take out. If your referring to immigrants I fully agree. However what about the 8 year old boy who is brain damaged ( fell from tree) will never work ever he ain't paid in. Do we leave him to die he will need benefits for rest of his days. Just my view from my job

Royal 22lr

Your at it again, stop throwing spanners into the works of the self employed tax dodgers who foam copiously from the mouth each and every time the word benefit is heard or seen.

 

KW

[keg]

The biggest percentage of benefits is paid to pensioners as their pension.

 

It was recently commented on that over 50% of Households get more in benefits than they pay in tax. That is not sustainable.

 

Because it is such an emotive issue, it's hard getting clear black and white facts.

[pegasus bridge]

Brett 1985

Firstly , people that work in the 3rd sector Law centres Citizens advice ( we advise people In relation to welfare) have been working with KPI's past twenty plus years.

 

Royal 22lr

My reference to KPI's was to do with parenting standards. My wife (who is fairly left wing in everything else). My mother and sister all work in the education sector . They all strongly agree that workless benefit dependent families do an overwhelmingly bad job parenting. Despite (unlike most working parents) having vast amounts of time to do so. They generally engage very badly with the education system, and raise equally unemployable scrotes like themselves, perpetuating the drain on society.

[Gimlet]

Your at it again, stop throwing spanners into the works of the self employed tax dodgers who foam copiously from the mouth each and every time the word benefit is heard or seen.

 

KW

 

 

For tax avoidance to be inherently immoral, government spending must be inherently virtuous. It manifestly is not. Nor are Government accounts subject to public scrutiny. Misallocation, waste and general misuse of public money takes place daily on a scale that would be both criminal and financially ruinous if replicated by a private enterprise. Private individuals and businesses must account for every penny that passes through their books on pain of imprisonment. Government, in all its branches and departments has exempted itself from this process. Almost no-one is held to account for the way public money is used and abused and there is no audit trail. When government bankrupts the national account it holds a legislative gun to society's head and extorts more money with menaces. When society runs out of money and can no longer be mugged, government robs the unborn. We are ruled by a bureaucratic dictatorship which has created a bottomless pit that swallows the nation's wealth and offers nothing in return but more of the same. Those who are forced to waste their lives labouring to fund this fiasco are as much victims as those who waste their lives rotting on welfare dependency. It isn't immoral to question the mess that public spending has become nor to take steps to avoid being ruined by it. It is immoral not to.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Gimlet

[overandunder2012]

i still want to know where i can claim my 53k a year id be happy to jack it all in for that

 

must be 1 in 100000 gets that kind of money think it maybe a bit late in the day for me to drum up another 12 brats

[kdubya]

 

 

For tax avoidance to be inherently immoral, government spending must be inherently virtuous. It manifestly is not. Nor are Government accounts subject to public scrutiny. Misallocation, waste and general misuse of public money takes place daily on a scale that would be both criminal and financially ruinous if replicated by a private enterprise. Private individuals and businesses must account for every penny that passes through their books on pain of imprisonment. Government, in all its branches and departments has exempted itself from this process. Almost no-one is held to account for the way public money is used and abused and there is no audit trail. When government bankrupts the national account it holds a legislative gun to society's head and extorts more money with menaces. When society runs out of money and can no longer be mugged, government robs the unborn. We are ruled by a bureaucratic dictatorship which has created a bottomless pit that swallows the nation's wealth and offers nothing in return but more of the same. Those who are forced to waste their lives labouring to fund this fiasco are as much victims as those who waste their lives rotting on welfare dependency. It isn't immoral to question the mess that public spending has become nor to take steps to avoid being ruined by it. It is immoral not to.

What is immoral is the hypocrisy of those who advocate at each and every opportunity the willingness by using any means whatsoever to avoid paying tax, whilst at the same time condemning every sole who regardless of tenure is receiving some form of benefit,we are now at the point of starting to have a go at pensioners, who get the princely sum of max of £113 per week from the state, and who will pay tax if they have any other income that takes the total to above 10.5K,lets just top them and have done with it.

 

KW

Edited June 26, 2014 by kdubya

[Gimlet]

What is immoral is the hypocrisy of those who advocate at each and every opportunity the willingness by using any means whatsoever to avoid paying tax, whilst at the same time condemning every sole who regardless of tenure is receiving some form of benefit,we are now at the point of starting to have a go at pensioners, who get the princely sum of max of £113 per week from the state, and who will pay tax if they have any other income that takes the total to above 10.5K,lets just top them and have done with it.

 

KW

 

KW

 

Again, the immorality lies with the Government, which does not have to take money from pensioners because it collects to little tax but because its spends too much and spends it on the wrong things. There isn't a shortage of money, there is a shortage of fiscal competence and responsibility. There can be no moral imperative to pay tax without a reciprocal responsibility to spend it wisely and efficiently under a transparent system of accountability. Without this balance revenue collection is nothing more than extortion.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Gimlet

[overandunder2012]

personally i dont blame anyone for paying as little tax as they can if they are self employed i also dont really believe everyone on benefits are rolling in it