Introduction and Shotgun Advice.

[nickofh]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to say hello as I am new to the forum and to a degree this kind of hobby ( a hobby for me ). I was recently granted my licence and to get started I purchased an ex display hatsan escort pump, which I'm thrilled with. I have been lucky in that my friend has some permissions already and his partner is a gundog trainer who we have had a lovely little working cocker from.

 

As I have a my rough shooting gun I would like a bit of advise on my next one. My 30th is coming up soon and my dad is really keen on the idea of getting me something to keep / hand down etc, So I have said a shotgun would be perfect. He thinks this is a great idea too! Problem is I don't really know where to begin with it. I know I want a brand new gun, the budget at the MAX will be £900 and I think an over under would suit me and the purpose well. What brand is the best bang for buck , that offers good quality, reliability and will outlast me?

 

Brands I have looked on the net. Lanber , Franchi, Lincoln , Webley & Scott , Bettinsoli , Revo, Hubertus , Silma. Please help me choose between them. I like the look of bettinsoli I think and would like one that's made in Europe ( Italy or Germany , UK ideally! )

 

Thanks very much

[Scully]

From those selected I doubt the 'handing down' part will be fulfilled with the exception of possibly the Lanber Sporting DeLuxe and a good Franchi. This has all been discussed in depth and at length, but if you want a gun of such quality to be able to hand it down in the knowledge it will go on working then you'd be better off looking at the most popular models as made by Miroku, Browning and Beretta.

I wont rubbish anyones gun as we all have budgets but I really can't stress enough to stay away from the W&S, unless they have drastically been improved in the last couple of years.

My nephew bought a quality Lincoln Jubilee Prestige 20 bore some years ago made by F.A.I.R. but he paid a lot more than 900 for it and since selling it he has been looking for the same model in 12 bore.

[strangford wildfowler]

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your stay.

 

Personally I've only handled one of the a fore mentioned shotguns and that was the betinsoli a good friend of mine has one and to be honest his is a cracker lovely engraving on his handles well just a very noce well put together gun for not a load of money I think he paid £6-700 for his amd its one of the top models it was second hand with hardly a slab of cartridges though it.

It was a very nice gun.

[Les*1066]

Hi Nick .... welcome to PW!

 

You could add Laurona to your list. They are excellent value for money, and very well made.

[fenboy]

To be honest as has been said by Scully none of the guns you list will last to hand down generations and they will all lose a packet from new.

For £900 you will get a mint Beretta, Browning or Miroku S/H that will last a lifetime if cared for and still be worth what you paid for it if you decide to get rid of it at a later date .

 

I understand that you would like a new gun but not many people would choose a new Skoda over a year old Aston Martin !

[HDAV]

FOr £900 and something that will last I am afraid the ones on your list so far wont get very far.........

 

Brands I have looked on the net. Lanber , Franchi, Lincoln , Webley & Scott , Bettinsoli , Revo, Hubertus , Silma. Please help me choose between them. I like the look of bettinsoli I think and would like one that's made in Europe ( Italy or Germany , UK ideally! )

 

Thanks very much

Lanber gone bust

 

Franchi now part of beretta but built to a budget

 

Lincoln imported from europe rizzini I think (one of them anyway)

 

W&S sadly a turkish made gun not worthy of the name

 

Bettininsoli Look good but poor quality..

 

Revo dont bother turkish and rough

 

Hubertus see above

 

Silma italian IIRC not great but not the worst...

 

Once you take the vat etc off the £900 sticker price not alot left.....

 

 

For my money it would be a tidy used Miroku Grade 3+ (they make the brownings for browning! actually own part of the browning name)

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Miroku_Shotgun_MK-60-Grade-1_For-Sale_140502094703001

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Miroku_Shotgun_800_For-Sale_140429144106001

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Miroku_Shotgun_3800-Grade-3_For-Sale_14080115455388 (this would be where my money would go)

 

AYA perhaps if you wanted something game oriented

 

 

English guns well you could pick up a tidy english boxlock SxS for the money that will hold value if cared for

 

 

Most important is you can shoot with it.... So dont buy on looks

 

Baikal will last for ever but not really a prestige gun

 

EDIT: for VFM Winchester 101 Dimaond grade or grand european

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Winchester_Shotgun_101-XTR-SUPER-GRADE_For-Sale_140721085240001

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Winchester_Shotgun_DIAMOND-GRADE_For-Sale_140809093659001

 

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Winchester_Shotgun_Grand-European_For-Sale_140430134314001

Edited August 10, 2014 by HDAV

[la bala]

Hello

[HDAV]

Why not get one made the year you were born instead of the 80's the better made guns in your price range are probably Japanese made miroku 3800/800 Winchester 101, nikko and a couple of others. Unfortunately by then the British trade had moved up market and the mass produced stuff not great, the Europeans were still lagging behind on quality in mechanisation

 

That said a beretta 682 from 1984 should still be going strong in another 30 years

Edited August 10, 2014 by HDAV

[Will Poon]

There's plenty of English SxS for very little money that can be cherished and handed down to the next generation to use

[Muddy Funker]

A nice Miroku MK38.

I got one for around £800 second hand, it looks as good now as it did 7 years ago.

[Scully]

Was going to mention 101 as I'm a big fan and have just bought another, but they are older guns now b y comparison to the other good makes (but that certainly wouldn't put me off buying one). if you want a very nice Beretta Super Sport 682 then Swillington Shooting Supplies have one which you should be able to get for around the 800 quid mark ( probably less). I know because I just sold them it. Very nice gun. It has 7 chokes with it also, but no slip 'cos I kept that.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Scully

[nickofh]

Hello everyone , thanks for the warm welcome! I know this is a shooting forum but I was blown away ( oh dear ) my the quantity and quality of the advice you have all given me. I particularly like the idea if I can find something from 1984 and if that something were made in Japan I would be really pleased.

 

Perhaps I should stick to one of the used named brands that you all suggest. But if you could only buy new with £900 MAX to spend , which would you go for and why ?

[NickB65]

I would forget brand new and go for a second hand gun of quality. Buying second hand means more choice and gun for the money you want to spend.

 

A good second hand O/U for £900.... go to GunTrader and have a search and then pop over to a few gun shops and handle them and see what you like.

 

Buying second hand means bang for buck.

[wymberley]

As already said, for the budget quoted longevity is going to be your problem. You're almost certainly going to be looking at second hand. A smart move is to consider what hardly anyone else wants which has the effect of driving the price down. Often these are not wanted not because they're no good, but for the simple fact that they're currently not in vogue. An English sbs non ejector with shorter barrels and double triggers in very good condition can be found for the money in question. The only problem can be is that when a fault does occur, it will need the attention of a 'smith who may well have to manufacture any defective component. A good alternative is, as again, already mentioned, an AYA of the same spec' (except it will probably have ejectors) as these are still in production. AYA used to boast that, "only abuse not use will wear out an AYA" which wasn't too far from the mark. I have every confidence that my 1964 '25' will see both me and my son out.

 

Just been made aware of your last post. It's like my dear old granny used to say, "style never goes out of fashion but sometimes it's temporarily mislaid". Obviously also agree with NickB65 whose post I've also just seen.

[strangford wildfowler]

There is a AYA Number 4 Boxlock Ejector for sale on Gunwatch for £600 if that floats your boat nice gun is it aswell.

[Duckman91]

As already said secondhand is the way to go. More choice and much better quality for the same money as new. Stick with a good quality name and try some guns out if you get the chance to get a feel for what you like.

[Scully]

 

 

Perhaps I should stick to one of the used named brands that you all suggest. But if you could only buy new with £900 MAX to spend , which would you go for and why ?

From those you've selected it would be the Lanber Sporting DeLuxe. Good solid well made value for money, but it still doesn't compare to any of the many secondhand models others have advised.

[lloydi73]

To be honest as has been said by Scully none of the guns you list will last to hand down generations and they will all lose a packet from new.

For £900 you will get a mint Beretta, Browning or Miroku S/H that will last a lifetime if cared for and still be worth what you paid for it if you decide to get rid of it at a later date .

 

I understand that you would like a new gun but not many people would choose a new Skoda over a year old Aston Martin !

+ 1!! I bought a second hand Beretta 682 Golden E in mint condition..paid a bit more than £900, more like £1750, but it still holds it's value and I've never had a problem with it...I've put at least 20,000 cartridges through it.....Like said above by several others, if you want it to last, you're better going for a 2nd hand quality gun....ATB

[shaun4860]

New for your budget?.....I would try and wangle a deal on a new Winchester Select,.

 

They retail around £1000 and a deal may be had, but remember, soon as you walk out the shop you have at least lost the Vat on it at 20%

 

As many have said, in your budget, used is the way to go.

 

Good luck and enjoy whatever you buy, that's the main thing

 

[HDAV]

Only reason you would "have to buy new" I can think of is an insurance replacement so I would buy whatever the dealer would give me the most cash for as I handed it back and buy a used gun.....

 

Winchester select for £900 would be ok infancy one on guntrader for £895 not half the gun a 101 diamond or grand European would be and not real wood!

Edited August 11, 2014 by HDAV

[nickofh]

Thanks again for the sound advise. I really am torn at the moment, please don't think of me as a snob for wanting a new one. I am more than happy to have many things used in life but because this was something I intended to have forever I thought it would be a bit more personal if it were only in my family.

 

Not sure to go new or used just yet or maybe a new semi auto from browning - maybe fusion evolve , what do you think?

 

thanks again everyone for your replies and warm welcome's!

[lloydi73]

I bought the Beretta A300 outlander semi, it's about £ 900, but is beautifully balanced and weighted and touch wood I've never had a jam! Cycles 2.5 3 and 3.5 cartridges.....good hunting

 

ATB

Edited August 11, 2014 by lloydi73

[DrBob]

Agree with the wise words of the experienced. Remember the confused old bloke down the road who always had to have a "new" car?

He'd buy some junkmobile like a Lada or a Dacia because it was new, sensible folk would pay the same or less for real quality in a secondhand Golf. His car would lose value like a falling brick, the quality of the better car would last far longer.

Same with guns. None of the guns you're considering is bad as such, but they are very much mass produced and will lose value very quickly.

Beretta ( my favourite) Miroku/ Browning are beautifully made, years of experience and big budget research and design. A grand will buy a reliable, solid and lovely gun with years of use left in it and the prestige of a quality product. Think secondhand BMW versus a new Ssangyong.

[HDAV]

Agree with the wise words of the experienced. Remember the confused old bloke down the road who always had to have a "new" car?

He'd buy some junkmobile like a Lada or a Dacia because it was new, sensible folk would pay the same or less for real quality in a secondhand Golf. His car would lose value like a falling brick, the quality of the better car would last far longer.

Same with guns. None of the guns you're considering is bad as such, but they are very much mass produced and will lose value very quickly.

Beretta ( my favourite) Miroku/ Browning are beautifully made, years of experience and big budget research and design. A grand will buy a reliable, solid and lovely gun with years of use left in it and the prestige of a quality product. Think secondhand BMW versus a new Ssangyong.

Cars are a bad comparison, If you had £3k+ to spend i would say buy new, but £900 max is not going to cut it. An auto isn't really an heirloom..... Nothing to consider being snobbish about but if the longevity is important your not going to get that for your budget.

 

 

I have to ask why did you buy a pump? weird first gun and I can't think of any reason to recommend one to a newcomer.

 

Also don't buy on looks buy on how it shoots as you develop the gun you buy now probably wont be the gun you shoot most with in 2-3 years but if you want a keeper get something that will last and appreciate

[nickofh]

Cars are a bad comparison, If you had £3k+ to spend i would say buy new, but £900 max is not going to cut it. An auto isn't really an heirloom..... Nothing to consider being snobbish about but if the longevity is important your not going to get that for your budget.

 

 

I have to ask why did you buy a pump? weird first gun and I can't think of any reason to recommend one to a newcomer.

 

 

 

Glad you asked really. My friend who has very kindly offered to take me on his permissions ( who is a former game keeper ) suggested an over under as a starting shotgun , for mainly the safety reasons I think. He was also the one who kind of pushed me to move from a .22 air rifle to a SGC

 

I needed a gun that I know I could shoot steel through as he uses the pigeons shot to feed his hawks with. I could not afford an over under that was proofed for steel until my birthday gift ( 1st child on the way ). So looking round , pumps were the cheapest with a full warranty and I would think are slightly safer than a semi auto. I can't also deny that I do like the pump action too.

 

I also think that in my limited experience a sem iauto isn't quite as good of a hand me down as an over under. So I think I will keep my eye out for a used premium brand. I fully get the car analogy and would much rather have a better used car than a poor new one. But it is because I have quite a few used things that I fancied a new one for this special gift.

 

Thanks again for the advice , I think you have convinced me. Does my reasons for a pump make sense though?!