Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 The attitude among a lot of English folk toward the Scots has undoubtedly hardened over the last decade or so. This sentence about attitudes hardening I find interesting. Could you explain the reasons for attitudes hardening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 That's what the Scottish government wanted to be a referendum question ie Devo Max but Westminster would only agree to a straight yes or no question. The bottom line, is its not a vote for wee eck salmond or the SNP but a vote so that we in Scotland cab be governed in our own country. Lets face it in England, unless your in the south east, your as well being in a foreign country as Westminster doesn't give a flying ****. The sad reality is though, those in the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland and basically anywhere which isn't in the central belt will be dominated by a Scottish Government whose majority comes from the central belt. They will consider Holyrood in the same way you regard Westminster. Still a win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 This sentence about attitudes hardening I find interesting. Could you explain the reasons for attitudes hardening? Maybe because of all the nationalists moaning about how hard done by they are when in fact more is spent in Scotland per capita than anywhere in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 If it is a Yes vote, Labour will be out in Britain for many a year to come - why do you think they are pushing so hard for the No vote? They really do need the Labour MPs from Scotland to be in with a chance in Westminster cos in England and Wales they don't have enough MPS to win as a government. All the best folks Pushkin B) This is a myth! Maybe because of all the nationalists moaning about how hard done by they are when in fact more is spent in Scotland per capita than anywhere in the UK. Do you speak for Zapp?! I live in lanarkshire now but originally from Ayrshire ,I m very much a yes as well as all my family and work mates, until about a month ago there was a lot more no votes from people I know now they are mostly all yes!! I know loads of people who have went from no to yes but not one single person to go the other way?? The government is bad now so it can't get much worse time we had a change !! So you're happy to jump into an unknown, risk your prosperity, your security and your wellbeing for the White Paper which is basically a wish list? Independence for Scotland would be Political, Social and Economic suicide You base this on what per chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) Do you speak for Zapp?! Not sure if you noticed, but this is a public conversation. Use a PM for private ones. As an aside: If there is a yes vote - I'm wondering how it would affect the markets. I'd be a bit nervous if I had funds in any of these banks: http://www.scotbanks.org.uk Edited September 7, 2014 by aris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I'm not so sure that this vote is more about Salmond's ego than Scotland's best interests. Salmond is the person who has helped the cause of independence in Scotland move forward to the stage where in reality it is now Scotland's people who can actually vote Independence in. He has only moved the very long running campaign on - he didn't think it up- he is only one of the better motivators in getting it to the stage of a vote by Scottish people for them. Many of the contributers to this thread seem to have a big problem with the Scots and what they perceive as our being some great millstone around your necks. Can I just state that for many Scots that is how we have felt for hundreds and hundreds of years in respect of those south of the border. But we have worked with you and along with you and even for you over the years - but we are not some simplistic group who are happy to endure that and now we do have a chance to change it. If we are such a burden to you all - then why the great efforts being made to try and get us to stay in the union? Pushkin B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) if the vote go's yes, who will be the opposition party to the snp I cant see labour/conservative-libs being funded from the rest of the union so will Scotland become a dictatorship with salmond as president ? Well they would be funded by members of course. Just like every other political party. This is sadly one of the strengths of the Yes campaign. They say a vote for Yes does not have to be a vote for the SNP. The SNP have only brought about the referendum. Once independence is passed they say you can vote for whoever you like. PS do you really think you subsidise us that much? Edited September 7, 2014 by Laird Lugton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) Whatever the merits of the campaign - this comment about underestimating Alex Salmond made the laugh. He is out of his depth. The wheel is still turning, but the hamster has left. You've misjudged this one. He is a very astute operator. When labour set up the scottish parliament they did so with the intention that proportional representation would not allow a single party to dominate the parliament as it does in Westminster. He came from 10 points down to get such a majority that it created the one thing labour designed against. The UK/Better Together campaign has misjudged him and now we see the effects.... Edited September 7, 2014 by Laird Lugton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 What a joke I see on the TV this morning the government are going to announce in the next few days there plans for devo max if they get a no vote is it not a bit late as a lot of people have already voted with there postal votes do they not get it that you cannot win an argument by threatening people as they have with the pound after all I do not think that most Scots want to leave they just do not want us telling them how to live there lives. Very well said. Nick Robinson was on R4 recently and said Better Together are banging on about the pound and voters have switched off on this subject. BT have seriously mishandled this campaign. As Scots they should know we are chippy people. If you tell them what they can/can't do it riles them. I knew it now Cameron is saying they will offer "incentives for Scotland" to encourage the non committed to vote for the union, so that will be a cut for the English somewhere along the line, time to cut the umbilical and let the sibling go its own way in life sink or swim. KW I have to laugh kdubya, the "umbilical cord" and "sibling". Good trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I know a lot of Scots people through my work and through my living in Peterhead for 3 years most are genuinely worried about a yes vote, Yet would it not be lovely to see the promises that billy blowfish is making aka several virgins in paradise!come to a shuddering halt with the onset of reality when an independent Scotland has to pay its own way via its own non subsidised taxation revenue intake, bye bye free uni and prescriptions, strewth the chip that would be off the shoulder for a while will come back with the vengeance of a genital wart. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatFreddysCat Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Seasoned politicians up here who have been campaigning for the union have said they have seen nothing like it. "Yes" rent-a-mobs turning up to drown them out, intimidation etc. Near me the local landowner put up two better together posters and a major junction. They were ripped down within 3 days by, one can only assume, "yes" supporters. There are some very unsavoury types who have crawled out of the woodwork for the "yes" campaign. Let's just say that I do not have a "UK:OK" sticker in my car window as I have a genuine fear that my car would be vandalised. Do the numbers not stack up? Both sides numbers have been discredited so much by either side that people can't make a decision using their head as no one trusts the information. Therefore I suspect they are now using their hearts to decide as the swing to "Yes" shows. I'm thinking of going skiing in Scotland over Christmas but I'm waiting until after the vote to see how the land lies before booking anything. I'm concerned that whichever way the vote goes there will be a rise in anti - English sentiment. The post above confirms my worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I know a lot of Scots people through my work and through my living in Peterhead for 3 years most are genuinely worried about a yes vote, Yet would it not be lovely to see the promises that billy blowfish is making aka several virgins in paradise!come to a shuddering halt with the onset of reality when an independent Scotland has to pay its own way via its own non subsidised taxation revenue intake, bye bye free uni and prescriptions, strewth the chip that would be off the shoulder for a while will come back with the vengeance of a genital wart. KW One that one, I agree with you KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I know a lot of Scots people through my work and through my living in Peterhead for 3 years most are genuinely worried about a yes vote, Yet would it not be lovely to see the promises that billy blowfish is making aka several virgins in paradise!come to a shuddering halt with the onset of reality when an independent Scotland has to pay its own way via its own non subsidised taxation revenue intake, bye bye free uni and prescriptions, strewth the chip that would be off the shoulder for a while will come back with the vengeance of a genital wart. KW I would imagine that Scottish students wanting to study in England will pay foreign student tuition fees - up to £38k per year depending on uni and course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 If the Scottish are gullible enough to follow Alex Salmond, then they will deserve what they get. To those who rate him and think he is bright - he must have a doppelganger touring Scotland. The one who appears on TV comes across as a bumbling idiot. Perhaps given his record your comments say more about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Cut them loose. I only hope the UK government has the balls to make sure non-UK tax paying Scots with British citizenship don't take advantage of services in the south. I think it will really hit home when Scots have to go to travel to a consulate rather the local post office to renew their hated UK passports. Thats what every other UK citizen in a foreign country has to do. The question is why is the Govt fighting tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the Union if your attitude is the dominant one in England-shire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Just book your skiing in somewhere like Syria.Much safer and hopefully no more worrying about coming up to this hellish place and hellish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I wonder how many companies are planning an exodus from Scotland if they split, I know mine is, the plan has already been drawn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 PS do you really think you subsidise us that much? just check out the facts of "the Barnett formula" which, according to various sources, gives the per capita tax spend in Scotland from central government as being between 50 and 250 pounds per person depending on the veiwpoint of the source in question. All have to admit more is spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 And even if they don't, it's still going to cost us in one way or another.. the full extent of which should become clearer in the next few days when the 'no' pill gets it's final coat of sugar. If they do decide to split, I suspect the reality of being a new and independent country might not be all that cosy once the cries of 'freedom' have all died down and Salmond is sat on his throne without a clue what to do next. I just hope we don't do something stupid like agreeing to monetary union in a bid to keep our nukes at Faslane! I only know a few "Yes" supporters but none of them are ardent Braveheart watchers and none cry "freedom". They believe politics at Westminster to be broken and want to take the chance on a new start. I do not share their optimism but I agree with their view on Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) The question is why is the Govt fighting tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the Union if your attitude is the dominant one in England-shire? My attitude is probably not the dominant one in England. Government believes we would both be worse off divorced - hence better together. If there is a yes though, I would be in favour of a swift sharp separation with no concessions - if only to calm the markets. Sayonara. Edited September 7, 2014 by aris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcleod Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Just book your skiing in somewhere like Syria.Much safer and hopefully no more worrying about coming up to this hellish place and hellish people. Well said fella. Mcleod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I'm not so sure that this vote is more about Salmond's ego than Scotland's best interests. Salmond is the person who has helped the cause of independence in Scotland move forward to the stage where in reality it is now Scotland's people who can actually vote Independence in. He has only moved the very long running campaign on - he didn't think it up- he is only one of the better motivators in getting it to the stage of a vote by Scottish people for them. Many of the contributers to this thread seem to have a big problem with the Scots and what they perceive as our being some great millstone around your necks. Can I just state that for many Scots that is how we have felt for hundreds and hundreds of years in respect of those south of the border. But we have worked with you and along with you and even for you over the years - but we are not some simplistic group who are happy to endure that and now we do have a chance to change it. If we are such a burden to you all - then why the great efforts being made to try and get us to stay in the union? Pushkin B) +2 million, very succinctly put pushkin. I am a "no" but I do agree with this totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 ******* I do not share their optimism but I agree with their view on Westminster. Most of the population north and south of the boarder are with you on this, and not just Westminster but the Scottish parliament, Welsh assembly, and Northern Irish assembly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatFreddysCat Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Just book your skiing in somewhere like Syria.Much safer and hopefully no more worrying about coming up to this hellish place and hellish people. Don't think there's much snow in Syria but the Alps are looking better by the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Very well said. Nick Robinson was on R4 recently and said Better Together are banging on about the pound and voters have switched off on this subject. BT have seriously mishandled this campaign. As Scots they should know we are chippy people. If you tell them what they can/can't do it riles them. I have to laugh kdubya, the "umbilical cord" and "sibling". Good trolling indeed at least it could never be construed as offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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