410 Shotguns Explained

[motty]

Totally, 410 is coming out with me tonight, always the first choice

Anybody shot rabbits with no7's? Or 7.5s?

 

I've only ever used 6s but di the job hust fine

I've shot hares with 7.5, so I would say they'd be ok for rabbits.

[kent]

The point is we just see a hedge with pellets flying into the unseen, this is very bad for youngsters to see regardless of the given excuse.

 

I have yet to shoot 7 or 7 1/2 shot through the .410 on quarry (though I use this size in light loads for the 12 and it kills very well). I shot an nice little double browning with 7.5 shot the other week on some clays I liked it a lot.

 

your quite right Motty there is nothing wrong with a challenge! for me its getting the quarry within good killing range, sport after all is a game of chance.

[hedd-wyn]

I've shot hares with 7.5, so I would say they'd be ok for rabbits.

Thank you motty, just checking out my options

[hoggysreels]

I'd like to see a comparison, 12 bore vs 20 bore ... just like to see what the gap is between efficiency "keeping to the guys format" .. l like the way they choose to compare .. l don't want rocket science and velocity equations. I like a visual comparision, l'm not interested in ballistic jargon and sitting in a shed making various explosive devices, to be used at a latter date .. the lads tests/demo's are great, my cuppa tea, and they have a friendly demeanor about them .. l dont want to be inflicted with anoraksia boredomosis, which tends to be prolific within the ballistic environment ... ebola is quite deadly, but not a patch on the aforementioned ... you've been warned. Enter a ballistic's thread, whilst not fully protected and you're treading on limpet mines.

[Underdog]

I'd like to see a comparison, 12 bore vs 20 bore ... just like to see what the gap is between efficiency "keeping to the guys format" .. l like the way they choose to compare .. l don't want rocket science and velocity equations. I like a visual comparision, l'm not interested in ballistic jargon and sitting in a shed making various explosive devices, to be used at a latter date .. the lads tests/demo's are great, my cuppa tea, and they have a friendly demeanor about them .. l dont want to be inflicted with anoraksia boredomosis, which tends to be prolific within the ballistic environment ... ebola is quite deadly, but not a patch on the aforementioned ... you've been warned. Enter a ballistic's thread, whilst not fully protected and you're treading on limpet mines.

Yes serree.

 

About#7....One fox autopsy revealed nine #7 traversed the rib cage to the far ribs at 33 paces. I have no idea the total pellet strike. It was a home load on a2400 and 1/2oz.

The running fox cartwheeled stone dead.

 

U.

[motty]

I'd like to see a comparison, 12 bore vs 20 bore ... just like to see what the gap is between efficiency "keeping to the guys format" .. l like the way they choose to compare .. l don't want rocket science and velocity equations. I like a visual comparision, l'm not interested in ballistic jargon and sitting in a shed making various explosive devices, to be used at a latter date .. the lads tests/demo's are great, my cuppa tea, and they have a friendly demeanor about them .. l dont want to be inflicted with anoraksia boredomosis, which tends to be prolific within the ballistic environment ... ebola is quite deadly, but not a patch on the aforementioned ... you've been warned. Enter a ballistic's thread, whilst not fully protected and you're treading on limpet mines.

That's all very well, but you must delve a little deeper to make good comparisons. Simply, 410 vs 12 bore is not enough. The cartridges must be explored before the guns. There are too many variables not mentioned. A 12 vs 20 should be almost an identical pattern, given the same load and shotsize etc are used.

[neutron619]

That's all very well, but you must delve a little deeper to make good comparisons. Simply, 410 vs 12 bore is not enough. The cartridges must be explored before the guns. There are too many variables not mentioned. A 12 vs 20 should be almost an identical pattern, given the same load and shotsize etc are used.

 

Agreed - I've already said a lot on this thread so I won't rehash it all again, but you can get 21g of shot in a .410 (see the Winchester imported stuff), a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. Make a video exploring the difference between the three gauges using 21g of #7½ (or as near as you can get in the case of the .410) and my guess is you'll end up with a slightly more ragged pattern in the .410 than the 12ga, with some variation because of chokings (e.g. between three versions of "Improved Modified"), but ultimately, no difference in the field.

 

For what it's worth, I'm in the same position as kent and I'll put my money where my mouth is - a nice shiny new .410 SxS is next on my "buy list" and I'll be running the Eley Fourlongs in a #7, if I find they perform on the pattern plate.

Edited September 16, 2014 by neutron619

[kent]

That's all very well, but you must delve a little deeper to make good comparisons. Simply, 410 vs 12 bore is not enough. The cartridges must be explored before the guns. There are too many variables not mentioned. A 12 vs 20 should be almost an identical pattern, given the same load and shotsize etc are used.

 

Yes they should be, in practice most guns pattern best with the load they were designed for this is why the ten beats a stretched 12 and a 12 beats a stretched 20. Just considering now if I take a walk with some Eley 7 .410 shells I just discovered I actually bought a box of 18 grm or some 7.5 shot 21 grm cheddite in the light 12 bore. One of course is a lot of shot per calibre the other a little light on charge for the gauge, I bet they both kill Rabbits pretty good in practice

[turbo33]

Ok, the lads have made a few errors, fresh air back stop, and not really a fair comparison between the gauges as there are to many differences between the two. However, at least they continually make the effort to post videos on here. It takes a lot of time and effort to do so, therefore maybe its not he greatest show of appreciation to rip them to shreds PW style

 

Back to 410's being suitable/unsuitable as a youngsters gun, I think they are the ideal starting point. A single barrel version can be had for nuppence, they are light enough for a small lad/lass to carry for hours on end, are tame on recoil/noise, the need to be accurate and will teach them a lot about fieldcraft and the necessity to get closer to your quarry than maybe you need to with 32 grams of 6's

 

I use a 410 a lot of the time, o/u Yilditz and Mossberg Husher, and have had great success with them. Its true, it requires a bit more thought than filling the air with a big charge from a 12g, but as Motty said, its a fun gauge to use. I also agree with those who've mentioned around 19grms of 7's being the way to go.

 

Its one drawback, is the cost of cartridges. However, again, if a lad has spent his pocket money on a box of expensive carts, he might pay attention and make each shot count, to the best of his ability. I know I did when I were a lad. Reloading is the way to go, and the perfect cartridge can be made for very little money and naff all in the way of equipment

[Underdog]

I tried 3/4 oz loads in mine on h4227 and found it of no benefit in the field over 1/2oz loads! But that's just me!

 

U.

[neutron619]

I tried 3/4 oz loads in mine on h4227 and found it of no benefit in the field over 1/2oz loads! But that's just me!

U.

Just out of interest, do you attribute any of this to recoil? I agree, and the main reason for me is that 19g of shot (I use the Fiocchi F410s) whilst having its place, gives rather a kick in a 4 1/2lb gun, which tends to be off-putting. Edited September 16, 2014 by neutron619

[magman]

Love the 410 anything flying in 30 yrds i feel confident on dropping as all ready said very under estimated

[Underdog]

Just out of interest, do you attribute any of this to recoil? I agree, and the main reason for me is that 19g of shot (I use the Fiocchi F410s) whilst having its place, gives rather a kick in a 4 1/2lb gun, which tends to be off-putting.

No sir, h4227 is a slow powder in this application. It just did no better that's all. It may be fine for you bud.

I ended up just sticking to 1/2oz. H110 is also a good powder too by the way. IIRC it leaves a little more room.

 

U.

[neutron619]

No sir, h4227 is a slow powder in this application. It just did no better that's all. It may be fine for you bud.

I ended up just sticking to 1/2oz. H110 is also a good powder too by the way. IIRC it leaves a little more room.

 

U.

 

Interesting - thanks for coming back to me on that.

[byjovecarruthers]

I have a .410 bolt action three shot single barrel. I've used it to great effect on squirrels with Eley Fourlong. However, my secret ingredient are the 3" Buck Shot Personal Defence cartridges made by Fedral that I picked up for a very reasonable price in the states. They are sold as a home defence load for use with the 3" chambered revolvers and are unsurprisingly devastating on fox and kill easily out to 40yds.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/440699/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-3-4-buckshot-9-pellets-box-of-20

[MrPhantom]

I have a .410 bolt action three shot single barrel. I've used it to great effect on squirrels with Eley Fourlong. However, my secret ingredient are the 3" Buck Shot Personal Defence cartridges made by Fedral that I picked up for a very reasonable price in the states. They are sold as a home defence load for use with the 3" chambered revolvers and are unsurprisingly devastating on fox and kill easily out to 40yds.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/440699/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-3-4-buckshot-9-pellets-box-of-20

I can imagine there would be enough energy to kill at 40 yards but no pattern surely? There are only 9 pellets in each cartridge.

[Guest stevo]

I can imagine there would be enough energy to kill at 40 yards but no pattern surely? There are only 9 pellets in each cartridge.

yeah but a .410 is choked that tight , I bet the shot comes out in single file ! ;-)

[loriusgarrulus]

SSSH they will be putting it on a FAC if you tell them that. I would be like a machine gun.

[byjovecarruthers]

It patterns well enough. At 20yds the 9 pellets are all in a 6" circle. I've never patterned it at 40yds. I'll take it out and try it when I get chance. I do know it goes through a 2" plank as if it wasn't there! Charlie definitely doesn't like it!

[Guest stevo]

It patterns well enough. At 20yds the 9 pellets are all in a 6" circle. I've never patterned it at 40yds. I'll take it out and try it when I get chance. I do know it goes through a 2" plank as if it wasn't there! Charlie definitely doesn't like it!

if it works and your happy with it . Then you crack on mate .i have never tried the combo your using so i cant comment

Edited September 17, 2014 by stevo

[kent]

Ok, the lads have made a few errors, fresh air back stop, and not really a fair comparison between the gauges as there are to many differences between the two. However, at least they continually make the effort to post videos on here. It takes a lot of time and effort to do so, therefore maybe its not he greatest show of appreciation to rip them to shreds PW style

 

Back to 410's being suitable/unsuitable as a youngsters gun, I think they are the ideal starting point. A single barrel version can be had for nuppence, they are light enough for a small lad/lass to carry for hours on end, are tame on recoil/noise, the need to be accurate and will teach them a lot about fieldcraft and the necessity to get closer to your quarry than maybe you need to with 32 grams of 6's

 

I use a 410 a lot of the time, o/u Yilditz and Mossberg Husher, and have had great success with them. Its true, it requires a bit more thought than filling the air with a big charge from a 12g, but as Motty said, its a fun gauge to use. I also agree with those who've mentioned around 19grms of 7's being the way to go.

 

Its one drawback, is the cost of cartridges. However, again, if a lad has spent his pocket money on a box of expensive carts, he might pay attention and make each shot count, to the best of his ability. I know I did when I were a lad. Reloading is the way to go, and the perfect cartridge can be made for very little money and naff all in the way of equipment

 

There is no need for a backstop on a shotgun but you need to see whatever might be behind a hedge, many have been shot for being on the other side of a bush or hedge

[srspower]

There is a large bank directly behind the hedge! That's why we used it. Might see if I can put a YouTube caption on the vid.

[malkiserow]

As said before by another fella, a 12 + 20 bore comparison would be fantastic

[turbo33]

 

There is no need for a backstop on a shotgun but you need to see whatever might be behind a hedge, many have been shot for being on the other side of a bush or hedge

 

Ok Kent, I think you know what I meant, there is no need to pick the bones of everything that's posted here.

[kent]

 

Ok Kent, I think you know what I meant, there is no need to pick the bones of everything that's posted here.

 

Yes I did but note the OP keeps going back to the bank thing. Many, many years ago (5 shot was on SGC) I saw a fox go into a big rhody bush - the guy with me pumped the full mag into it and killed a sheep! Its really a don't shoot were you cant see thing hence I picked up the talk of backstop I assume you really meant to say "backdrop" one that you could actually see