steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 On one of my permissions, I take care of the foxes for the farmer. He told me this morning that there are two staffordshire bull type dogs on his land, who have already killed two of his ewes and badly mauled another, which will probably die. He wants me to go up there one night to see if I can shoot them. Would it be better to get a letter from him stating that he has authorised me to act on his behalf, before I go there and shoot one or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Those dogs won't have wandered there on their own and i can imagine their owners getting pretty upset if you blatt them, even if there is just cause to do so. Add that to going at night and the sort of people who would be there at that time, with those sorts of dogs, erm, better you than me mate!! Edited October 7, 2014 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I've just come off the phone to BASC. (I forgot about asking them before I asked the question on here) Anyway, I was told that I could only shoot the dog/dogs IF I caught them in the act of actually worrying the sheep. If the dog/s run away if they see me, then legally I am not allowed to shoot them. At the lower part of the farm, it backs onto a housing estate, which to say it was rough, is an understatement. I think that the dogs are just coming onto the land, probably without the owners knowledge. I intend going up soon and use my NV to see if I can spot anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Is this with a shotgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the enigma Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Early last year we had a couple of lurchers come in to our yard and killed a cat and were just starting to circle our Jack Russell when I discovered them and chased them off....... as usual, you never have a gun handy when you need it. Anyway, reported it and had a visit from the dog warden, and told him that if I saw them any of our ground again,I'd shoot them. He said he wouldn't have a problem with that. But then again, I'm the land owner, to be honest I'd feel a bit uneasy doing it on someone else's land. Edited October 7, 2014 by the enigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 And dog lose worrying sheep or attacking them can be shot thats what I have been told for years by farmers and family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Can you get the farmer to get a letter to the owners to say that if their dogs keep pestering his sheep then is going to get someone to shoot them if they are caught in the act, at least then you can say that you have been warned if and when you do do it Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEshooter Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Trouble is, if you shoot these dogs and the owners live on the ruff estate backing onto the farm there could be repercussions. I'm fairly sure if you shoot some low life's dog they would want revenge. Farm machinery and barns getting burnt, that sort of thing. I'm not saying let them get away with it just be tactful about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 If caught worrying sheep, Silenced rifle then into farm slurry pit. The problem is if the owner of the dogs is with them as they sometimes use sheep for pre-fight training. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'm pretty sure that before shooting the dog, you have to have proof that you have taken reasonable measures to stop the dogs worrying the sheep on more than one occasion, and then once you've shot it, you have to notify the police within 24 hours. I dare say someone will put a link to the legislation up at some point, but suffice it to say, you can't legally just shoot a dog the first time you see it near the sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Is this with a shotgun? A shotgun and centerfire would be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Steve - I would advise a talk to the local police and your FEO ask the farmer if he is prepared to receive a call first and do get a letter of confirmation - ideally send the police copies of photos of the dead sheep later. I wouldnt shoot them until I had a positive nod from the police. I would then just shoot them and do it when you can confirm what they are doing - link to video recorder from NV? dispose of in slurry as suggested. This type of thing you need to be cast iron these days. Edited October 7, 2014 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'm pretty sure that before shooting the dog, you have to have proof that you have taken reasonable measures to stop the dogs worrying the sheep on more than one occasion, and then once you've shot it, you have to notify the police within 24 hours. I dare say someone will put a link to the legislation up at some point, but suffice it to say, you can't legally just shoot a dog the first time you see it near the sheep. As I mentioned in my previous post, the dog/s have to be seen worrying sheep, which could be chasing them, nipping at them or actually mauling them. Can you get the farmer to get a letter to the owners to say that if their dogs keep pestering his sheep then is going to get someone to shoot them if they are caught in the act, at least then you can say that you have been warned if and when you do do it Colin No one knows who owns the dog/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 If its next to an estate i'd let the dog warden take care of it. Its not worth the potential hassle it could bring down on you and the farmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/20/09/2012/135227/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm Read this first - Farmers Weekly article about precisiely this situation. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Shooting a dog also gives rise to potential firearms difficulties which farmers should bear in mind. If a rifle or other section 1 firearm has been used, then, unless one of the conditions on which the certificate was granted covers such use, which is extremely unlikely, there is a real risk of prosecution for failing to comply with the certificate conditions. Paradoxically, use a shotgun and the animal may suffer unnecessarily which also puts you at risk of gaol and a £20,000 fine. Having thought about this you need to have a video and you need to see them in the ACT and you need your FEO to confirm beforehand that you are within your Certificate conditions otherwise its a world of ****. Belt and braces and police contact before you shoot. Thats what I would do. Edited October 7, 2014 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/20/09/2012/135227/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm Read this first - Farmers Weekly article about precisiely this situation. Good Luck Very interesting Kes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Shooting a dog also gives rise to potential firearms difficulties which farmers should bear in mind. If a rifle or other section 1 firearm has been used, then, unless one of the conditions on which the certificate was granted covers such use, which is extremely unlikely, there is a real risk of prosecution for failing to comply with the certificate conditions. Paradoxically, use a shotgun and the animal may suffer unnecessarily which also puts you at risk of gaol and a £20,000 fine. Having thought about this you need to have a video and you need to see them in the ACT and you need your FEO to confirm beforehand that you are within your Certificate conditions otherwise its a world of ****. Belt and braces and police contact before you shoot. Thats what I would do. I am going to ring the local police (near to the farm) and speak to them, not that for one moment do I think they would have a clue. Also going to contact my FEO for advice. As mentioned, BASC stated that I, or anyone acting on behalf of the farmer to control vermin/protect livestock, would be in their rights. I think I'll pop up the farm tonight without any firearms, and just use my NV to see if I can spot anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I am going to ring the local police (near to the farm) and speak to them, not that for one moment do I think they would have a clue. Also going to contact my FEO for advice. As mentioned, BASC stated that I, or anyone acting on behalf of the farmer to control vermin/protect livestock, would be in their rights. I think I'll pop up the farm tonight without any firearms, and just use my NV to see if I can spot anything. Steve, bear in mind the stock are not your stock ( pre - dated farmers letter confirming you can act on his behalf in this matter), and, you are not likely to have a condition to use Section 1 stuff - I suggest you get the police agreement in your pocket first - better perhaps to go in daylight and find out who owns the dogs. Your farmer wont be too chuffed if he knows you are out unarmed and another sheep is killed. Press the police to agree to exactly what you are planning to do and having their agreement, go to stop the problem. Any accusations of unnecessary suffering would be countered by a video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Its something I have been asked to do ,I declined the offer due to any repercussions 1. FEO 2. Compensation claim from dog owner 3. Issues arising on renewal of application 4 Does your BASC/ SACS Insurance, cover you if a prosecution case is brought against you Becareful and bare in mind whatever the outcome would the landowner standby you after the event if all goes sour If you are in doubt about any of the above then dont do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 When all said and done it would be better to shoot the dogs owner who is allowing them to worry sheep. Otherwise they will only go and get some more dogs and the problem starts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Have a discussion with your FEO, get his approval then proceed with SSS ..... shoot shovel shutup Don't drop them in the slurry pit, take it from me they won't rot down and Mr farmer will be mightily peed when he has to drag the carcasses out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 proceed with SSS ..... shoot shovel shutup dogs… what dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 best say nowt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Would be a shame to accidentally shoot a first time offender on the land that has played no part in the attacks so ditto the posts looking for video evidence, positive I'd of the offending animal etc. Know I would be gutted if it was my dog, equally it wouldn't be on its own and yes he is a Staffy, best trained one around as I aim to beat the stereotype the dog receives. Bad owners bad dogs....bit like kids I think sometimes lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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