visit

[Steppenwolf]

Or the still fit firearms holders would have to find somewhere else to store their guns. They couldn't just revoke the certificates of the other holders who didn't do anything wrong.

 

if everything is in order you have nothing to worry about,,, if its not then you do

 

atb Evo

The problem that sort of reasoning doesn't work since the police have done and will in future abuse thier power/not know the law and then you get screwed due to this.

[evo]

Or the still fit firearms holders would have to find somewhere else to store their guns. They couldn't just revoke the certificates of the other holders who didn't do anything wrong.

The problem that sort of reasoning doesn't work since the police have done and will in future abuse thier power/not know the law and then you get screwed due to this.

yes some police do and will abuse their powers but with regards you getting screwed then sorry but I,m not having it,,if you are acting lawfully in your own home and all firearms are locked away and or out of the average joe blogs beady eyes then I,m sorry but I am abiding by my licence conditions,

 

if they wanted to try and screw me as you say then sorry but my shooting organisation would step in and stand by me as they did in the past and I,m sure they would for all members,

 

people on here really are becoming worried sick about getting an unanounced visit,, you have the right by law to refuse entry until it is a more acceptable time for them to call,if they aint got a warrant then they aint coming in until I,m ready and believe me it will be by appointment only unless the door gets kicked in which I doubt,

 

as said I may have visitors, even eating my tea,then sorry they can wait until I,m ready

 

atb Evo

[leadbreakfast]

I don't understand what the problem is with them coming to check, they could come and I've got the guns out in my living room..

If I want to get all my guns out wilst I'm at home I can.

So surly there unannounced visit would be best when I'm not in. forced entry to checked there locked up.

It's like when the fao came to do my renual and said not to let the kids come to the cabinet and see the guns, I'm sorry but he comes out with me every weekend shooting and beating he see's them all the time..

[bostonmick]

I for one have no problem with the police calling anytime the kettle is always on for them.atb

[evo]

bostonmick and leadbreakfast, I thank you both,at last people with common sense

 

to me these threads are put on here to have a bash at our shooting organisations , nothing more . as you both said I do not have a problem with them calling and yes I,d put the kettle on but I would draw the line at giving away my hob nobs

 

lets be honest and sensible as you both have been, if they call then they call, so what,,but six pages of " but what if " is very fast becoming a joke

 

if people have a problem with their shooting organisation then the simple answer would be to pick up the phone and speak with them and/or stop paying them your money but babbling on about visits(unannounced) is silly IMO

 

all the best to you both

 

atb Evo

[bostonmick]

I will just add that I think it is grossly unfair the way that David basc gets blasted from all angles on here.in fact David is a great asset to this forum.also anyone who has had dealings with any of the government agencies will know that nothing gets done quickly. With the exception of taxes.And while our organisations are doing their best they are not miracle workers.from what I have seen on a lot of posts here is that even those who do not pay into basc will get a response from him.I wonder how different our sport might be if every sgc/fac holder's was a paid up member .as they say there is strength in numbers.stand together not just on a free forum give them the mandate of all shooters.atb

Edited November 19, 2014 by bostonmick

[Rim Fire]

It would be a funny old world if everyone agreed then we wouldnt need the police

[evo]

I will just add that I think it is grossly unfair the way that David basc gets blasted from all angles on here.in fact David is a great asset to this forum.also anyone who has had dealings with any of the government agencies will know that nothing gets done quickly. With the exception of taxes.And while our organisations are doing their best they are not miracle workers.from what I have seen on a lot of posts here is that even those who do not pay into basc will get a response from him.I wonder how different our sport might be if every sgc/fac holder's was a paid up member .as they say there is strength in numbers.stand together not just on a free forum give them the mandate of all shooters.atb

totally agree,,but the good thing is it is only a small group and always the same ones,

 

David has been a great help to myself and others on here and long may it continue but I do laugh when people are slagging BASC ,mostly unjustified

 

all I can say is BASC have helped me no end and I would not join any other organisation, they have turned up at meetings the lot with me in the past and have been nothing short of very helpful in giving me advice and also supporting myself to the hilt

 

I thankyou DavidBASC and BASC as a whole

 

atb Evo

[Scully]

I will just add that I think it is grossly unfair the way that David basc gets blasted from all angles on here.in fact David is a great asset to this forum.also anyone who has had dealings with any of the government agencies will know that nothing gets done quickly. With the exception of taxes.And while our organisations are doing their best they are not miracle workers.from what I have seen on a lot of posts here is that even those who do not pay into basc will get a response from him.I wonder how different our sport might be if every sgc/fac holder's was a paid up member .as they say there is strength in numbers.stand together not just on a free forum give them the mandate of all shooters.atb

 

totally agree,,but the good thing is it is only a small group and always the same ones,

 

David has been a great help to myself and others on here and long may it continue but I do laugh when people are slagging BASC ,mostly unjustified

 

all I can say is BASC have helped me no end and I would not join any other organisation, they have turned up at meetings the lot with me in the past and have been nothing short of very helpful in giving me advice and also supporting myself to the hilt

 

I thankyou DavidBASC and BASC as a whole

 

atb Evo

I thought this thread had mostly been a police bashing thread (and in particular Durham constabulary) rather than a BASC bashing one, so had a browse back through all six pages, and indeed it has been.

[bostonmick]

 

I thought this thread had mostly been a police bashing thread (and in particular Durham constabulary) rather than a BASC bashing one, so had a browse back through all six pages, and indeed it has been.

Thing is this particular topic has been on here several times in other threads.when one gets locked another somehow seems to find its way back.Couple it with the medical form's and you may find David has come under a fair bit of fire along with basc.atb

[evo]

Scully , it may have started as a police bashing thread but if you read through some of the replies it then jumped to the shooting organisations and why they are not doing enough then slating davidBASC, and why arn,t they doing more etc

 

once he replies to a question then the little BASC hating mob jump in,

 

its plain for all to see, but lets be honest 6 pages of "but what if,s"

 

pathetic really for grown up men/police bashers/shooting org haters

 

had my say and viewed my thoughts so I for one will leave it there

 

all the best

 

Evo

[Scully]

Thing is this particular topic has been on here several times in other threads.when one gets locked another somehow seems to find its way back.Couple it with the medical form's and you may find David has come under a fair bit of fire along with basc.atb

Emotive topics, especially those some feel are unresolved, will of course resurface time after time. The lead shot issue and, as you mention, medical forms are as yet unresolved, and perfect examples of this, and BASC (among others) play the part of mediator in these issues. That is the role they wanted; they actively pursue our revenue with advertising of various ways in which they can protect our shooting and actively compete with each other for that revenue. I don't care about the insurance; I can buy insurance from BASC's underwriters cheaper than I can from BASC. I pay my shooting organisation (now the NGO) for results. Have you considered contacting the NGO, CA, CPSA, NPA, BFSS etc etc and ask if they'll put in an appearance on here? It would certainly liven things up.

David doesn't have to come on here; he does it of his own free will. If some feel let down then they will complain, as we do about anything and everything in life, for example: GP not giving us the treatment we need; politicians not delivering on promises they made; someone selling us a shoddy bit of kit; poor teaching in school etc etc.

There is a 42 page thread on this forum where BASC, and of course David ( as BASC's PW representative) in particular has been bashed over the period of that long thread, but I'm not aware of either you or Evo jumping to his defence on that thread.

[bostonmick]

Emotive topics, especially those some feel are unresolved, will of course resurface time after time. The lead shot issue and, as you mention, medical forms are as yet unresolved, and perfect examples of this, and BASC (among others) play the part of mediator in these issues. That is the role they wanted; they actively pursue our revenue with advertising of various ways in which they can protect our shooting and actively compete with each other for that revenue. I don't care about the insurance; I can buy insurance from BASC's underwriters cheaper than I can from BASC. I pay my shooting organisation (now the NGO) for results. Have you considered contacting the NGO, CA, CPSA, NPA, BFSS etc etc and ask if they'll put in an appearance on here? It would certainly liven things up.

David doesn't have to come on here; he does it of his own free will. If some feel let down then they will complain, as we do about anything and everything in life, for example: GP not giving us the treatment we need; politicians not delivering on promises they made; someone selling us a shoddy bit of kit; poor teaching in school etc etc.

There is a 42 page thread on this forum where BASC, and of course David ( as BASC's PW representative) in particular has been bashed over the period of that long thread, but I'm not aware of either you or Evo jumping to his defence on that thread.

I taught all my children how to behave and respect others years ago.I do not intend trying to do it on here.I respect David for coming on here trying to help and give advice.And as you hinted the other organisations are conspicuous by there absence.also on the subject of these Emotive threads as you call them what has the other organisations achieved as far as medical reports. And the unanounced visits are concerned.

[Scully]

Scully , it may have started as a police bashing thread but if you read through some of the replies it then jumped to the shooting organisations and why they are not doing enough then slating davidBASC, and why arn,t they doing more etc I did read through the replies. Unless I missed something I was the only one who commented on our organisations ineffectiveness, but must have missed the David BASC slating bit. I'll have another look but I thought David and me ended on good terms.

once he replies to a question then the little BASC hating mob jump in, We must be reading different threads. Like I said, I think I was the only one who criticised our shooting organisations, and not specifically BASC.

its plain for all to see, but lets be honest 6 pages of "but what if,s" Some people are concerned as to where the farcical reasons for the 'new initiative' will end. Like I've said, the UK was under much more prolonged and horrendous terrorist attacks for decades and yet neither our politicians or police hierarchy felt the need for a 'initiative' back then, so why do they feel the need now? Politics? To avert attention from high profile criticism of ineffectiveness and allegations of corruption from those charged with our protection, namely the police? Who knows?

 

pathetic really for grown up men/police bashers/shooting org haters You're perfectly entitled to your opinion; you, like David, aren't forced to agree nor even respond.

 

had my say and viewed my thoughts so I for one will leave it there Fair enough.

 

all the best

 

Evo

[parapilot]

I don't want police knocking on my door whenever they feel, it's like they are bullying shooters. Iv nothing to hide, my security is top notch due to

My job, I don't like any attention my way, police at my door, they may as well put a sign up saying this guys a criminal or has firearms.

 

If they go around taking certs of people due to oversites they have made, everyone should take them to court. Someone that's had a cert trouble free for 15 years like said, and gets revoked due to police discovering something missed off an application I'd like to see any judge say they were now a danger to public after 15 years!!!

[Scully]

I taught all my children how to behave and respect others years ago. I have taught both my children to do likewise. The respect aspect where it is appropriate however, as of course it works both ways, but I fail to see what this has to do with the topic.

I do not intend trying to do it on here. I wasn't aware your children visited this forum.

I respect David for coming on here trying to help and give advice. As do I, does that mean I can't disagree or argue with him? I respect my children and my missus but we have some real humdingers at times. It's called life.

And as you hinted the other organisations are conspicuous by there absence. If you're concerned have you tried contacting them and asking them to participate?

also on the subject of these Emotive threads as you call them what has the other organisations achieved as far as medical reports. And the unanounced visits are concerned. I have been reliably informed by two people I personally know that the CPSA has informed them (the members I personally know whom asked) to comply; one being told 'it'll probably hold up your renewal if you don't' , meaning comply, and a third (whom I don't personally know) on another forum being asked by the CPSA 'how much do you want your certificate?' when he asked if he should comply. I don't know where the CPSA stands on unannounced visits, do you?

The NGO have told me personally that if any of their members are asked by their licensing authority to ask their GP for a report and to pay for it, they should ask the person responsible for their name and rank and then contact the NGO, who will then take it from there with a view to confronting that person on the grounds of asking an applicant to comply with a non-statutory requirement.

A far as unannounced visits are concerned, the NGO were there with the other organisations, but my NGO representative was the only source I could find who could give me an unequivocal 'yes' answer to my 'can I still say no' question when no one else could, or would.

As for the other organisations, I have no idea.

[bostonmick]

I don't want police knocking on my door whenever they feel, it's like they are bullying shooters. Iv nothing to hide, my security is top notch due to

My job, I don't like any attention my way, police at my door, they may as well put a sign up saying this guys a criminal or has firearms.

 

If they go around taking certs of people due to oversites they have made, everyone should take them to court. Someone that's had a cert trouble free for 15 years like said, and gets revoked due to police discovering something missed off an application I'd like to see any judge say they were now a danger to public after 15 years!!!

As I understand it the police will only be doing visits if they have cause.And the reason given upon arrival.also the reason for the revoke in the first post has not been given.But this thread has become so far removed from the original topic I doubt it matters or has any real relevance to this thread now.

[Scully]

As I understand it the police will only be doing visits if they have cause. But they do have a cause, under the reasons given forth in ACPO's 'new initiative'.

And the reason given upon arrival. Again, the reason given could be as simple as 'under the new initiative as announced by ACPO on such and such a date we would like to check all is as it should be with your firearms security, sir'.

also the reason for the revoke in the first post has not been given. Agreed.

But this thread has become so far removed from the original topic I doubt it matters or has any real relevance to this thread now. It is relevant in that it was an unannounced visit, but for what reason we may never know. Perhaps the police have had the person in question in their sights so to speak for some time, and the timing of the visit is totally coincidental, but if they did in fact have another 38 knocks to do the coincidence seem unlikely. Who knows? Time will tell....maybe.

[David BASC]

Thank you for the support.

 

One of the reasons I come on this forum, and a couple of others, is to get feedback on issues. This in turn I have fed back to different departments at BASC or in some cases the team of 4 senior directors.

 

Believe it or not, and taking out some of the more personal attacks that I get from time to time, much of what is said on these forums is very illuminating, and certainly helps me to understand better the demands and needs of shooters.

 

As you may all know, BASC policy is set by the elected members of BASC who make up the BASC Council, and not by members of staff like me. I fully understand that some of the policy decisions are not to the liking of some, but all I can do in those cases is try to explain the reasons behind the decision. This can become argumentative I agree, but as Scully says when we are dealing with emotive issues that's almost inevitable.

 

Scully and I have certainly had a few frank discussions in the past, but speaking personally that was not a problem, after all, when all is said and done we are on the same side and have the same love for the sport and all that it entails. Consequently, I am willing to bet that there is little difference between what Scully thinks and I think on just about every issue but have differing views in some cases as to how they should or could be resolved, and have different views on how to get there.

 

Turning back to visits, what I can report is that there have been relatively few, well under 100 across the UK, that BASC members have made us aware of. It is also evident that the letter that went out from ACPO (which we did not see by the way until after it had landed) to Chief Constables did miss off a few bits that were in the Home Office Guidance. specifically the letter missed off the fact that unannounced visits should only be done if there was specific evidence to support it.

 

As a consequence several forced have put on their web site that unannounced visits would take place, indicating that these would be random, and one force I know of seem to have taken this to heart and started random visits.

 

What I can say is that the police have no new powers or no additional right of entry, you can say no if its not convenient, this point has been on our web site since the guidance was changed in mid October and was also in our last mag which landed about a week or so ago.

 

Meetings will carry on being undertaken by BASC with constabularies that are acting outside of the guidance, the objective being to engage with these forces in a positive but firm way to ensure they do comply with the guidance. If not there are further steps that we can and will take.

 

However, all of this has also given me the opportunity to revisit how we deal with licencing issues , and I am working with one of our senior directors on a revised and clearer protocol on how BASC will help members, I hope to have this published very soon.

 

David

Edited November 19, 2014 by David BASC

[belly47]

keep up the good work David, it is appreciated

[Scully]

Many thanks David. I can agree with many of the sentiments above, and appreciate it must be difficult at times as I imagine you must feel your hands are tied.

Speaking to some on here I think a lot of frustration arises when evasive and noncommittal answers are given ; especially those of a political 'type' quoting party policy and little else, but like I say, I can understand why it happens as it leaves little scope for argument or interpretation, but much scope for speculation, which in turn causes frustration and annoyance.

Anyhow, I do appreciate your presence, and many thanks again.

[HDAV]

Thanks for the update David, has the force which has been proactive with "random visits" found any wrong doing? Have they been informed of the "mistake" in the letter?

[The Juicer]

Fact- a fair amount of guns have been stolen here in NI every month. Safes etc forced off walls.so I wonder what the GB figures are like. The plod are just trying to catch out those that leave their guns on the sofa, like my relative does!

[Bazooka Joe]

Meetings will carry on being undertaken by BASC with constabularies that are acting outside of the guidance, the objective being to engage with these forces in a positive but firm way to ensure they do comply with the guidance. If not there are further steps that we can and will take.

 

 

The meeting that BASC had at Durham the other day David......was there a positive outcome.?

[HDAV]

Fact- a fair amount of guns have been stolen here in NI every month. Safes etc forced off walls.so I wonder what the GB figures are like. The plod are just trying to catch out those that leave their guns on the sofa, like my relative does!

 

Stats (disputed) are here: http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/exclusive-unannounced-police-visits-legal-gun-owners-begin-40860