Shotgun renewal

[hellier0437]

Well i have never heard of that,(keeping your old ticket with no photo) but glad it was OK.

 

Take a photocopy of your current cert, then send it by registered post to them, you will be legal.

 

I am waiting for my FAC & SGC renewal, my FAC runs out on Friday so if i don't get my FAC by then i have to put my rifle's into storage with an RFD, but i can keep my shotties because my ticket for them runs out next year.

 

i was under the impression that you could apply for a temporary permit to allow you to kep yoru weapons while the renewal goes through

[lurcherboy]

You did right Turk

 

There are a increasinging number of bogus calls and they ain't after your gun but your SGC.

 

This has been made known in the shooting mags and The BASC are aware of it.

 

 

 

 

LB

[LONG STOCK]

sent my SGC off 4 weeks ago, expired last sunday, not got new one back yet. rang on firearms dept monday they said its being done, but am i still able to shoot ? they made it sound if i was ok. and when i sent my renewel form back i had to send my SGC with it.

[lurcherboy]

According to Kent Police, if the cheque has been cashed, yes.

 

Might have trouble if stopped though or buying carts

 

 

 

 

LB

[mossy835]

my flo said not two send old one back, if it got lost in the post any one could get it.thats why they stopped doing it.

[OldBill]

Hope this helps

 

Power of PC to demand production - firearm / shotgun cert

 

Full View Summary View NARRATIVE Section 48 of the Firearms Act 1968 provides a constable with the power to demand from a person he believes to be in possession of a firearm or shot gun the production of a valid certificate or European pass or to show that his exempt. It states:-

48(1) A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which the holding of a valid firearm certificate is necessary, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm/ shot gun certificate.

 

48(1A) Where a person upon whom a demand has been made by a constable under subsection (1) and whom the constable believes to be in possession of a firearm fails-

 

(a) to produce a firearm/shot gun certificate;

(:blink: to show that he is a person who, by reason of his place of residence or any other circumstances, is not entitled to be issued with a document identifying that firearm under any of the provisions which in the other member States correspond to the provisions of this Act for the issue of European firearms passes;

or to show that he is in possession of the firearm exclusively in connection with the carrying on of activities in respect of which, he or the person on whose behalf he has possession of the firearm, is recognised, for the purposes of the law of another member State relating to firearms, as a collector of firearms or a body concerned in the cultural or historical aspects of weapons,

 

the constable may demand from that person the production of a document which has been issued to that person in another member State under any such corresponding provisions, identifies that firearm as a firearm to which it relates and is for the time being valid.

 

48(2) If a person upon whom a demand is made fails to produce the certificate/document, or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.

 

48(3) If a person is required to declare to a constable his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address.

 

48(4) It is an offence for a person who is in possession of a firearm to fail to comply with a demand under subsection 1A above.

 

Notes :

(I) The firearms legislation is intended to impose strict controls and has done so increasingly over the past few years. There appears to be considerable confusion in relation to the interpretation of the word "demand" in Subsection 48(1). Some firearms departments and training schools interpret "demand" as requiring immediate production, while others allow varying periods of time during which the certificate may be produced without penalty.

(ii) Section 48(2) implies the immediate sanction of seizure of the firearm - 'then and there' - upon failure to produce a firearms certificate. In addition the word "fails" is used throughout section 48 without qualification, therefore, if one subsection bites with immediacy it is difficult to see why others should not do so.

(iii) It is therefore the considered view of the PNLD National Research office that "demand" in subsection 48(1) implies immediate production, however, it is advised that this should be tempered with common sense. For example:-

 

(a) a police officer calls at a farmhouse and demands production of the farmers' firearms certificate. The farmer goes upstairs to search through papers for five minutes before he is able to produce his firearms certificate. This would still be immediate production.

(:blink: likewise the person who is at say - a county fair, he has with him his firearm and a police officer demands production of his certificate. It is in his car which is in the car park just a couple of minutes away the officer accompanies him and he duly produces the certificate from the glove compartment.

In these instances there is no break in the process of demand and production between the officer and the firearm possessor.

however, the visiting of other premises or sites by a person with a firearm without possessing his firearm certificate would it is argued lay the firearm possessor open to sanctions.

 

Therefore if the firearm is being moved from the owner's home (where it is presumed there is located both the certificate and the secure cupboard) then the certificate should be carried around.

[turk101]

Here is the question & answer in the LEGAL section of the SPORTING GUN. PAGE 35.

Seems like quite a few people have UNWILLINGLY BROKEN the law.

 

Q: For reasons beyond my control there's been a delay in renewing my certificate & i'm worried i shall be left without one. The police say it does'nt matter so long as the application is being processed but i'm not happy about it.

 

A: (DAVID FROST sporting gun) The police are UTTERLY WRONG but some idle or INCOMPETENT forces have been saying things like this for years. With a few exceptions it is an ABSOLUTE OFFENCE to be in POSSESSION of a SHOTGUN or FIREARM WITHOUT a VALID certificate.

If there is likely to be a delay INSIST on being given a SECTION 7 temporary permit. This allows you to continue to possess & use your shotgun or firearm & to buy shotgun ammunition.

As it takes almost as much effort to issue a SECTION 7 as it does the real thing a request for one often expedites the issue of a proper certificate. A few police forces, mine included, claim that as a matter of policy they never issue a SECTION 7. When push comes to shove they don't have much option & i've got my Section 7 framed in the loo. TAKE A TOUGH LINE.

 

As stated above this is a recent article out of the sporting gun, so i will give my police force a couple of weeks then ask for a SECTION 7, as he was saying they are short off staff so it could take a little longer than usual.

HOPE THIS ALL HELPS.

 

Regards turk101

[Axe]

t is an offense not to be able to produce your license when asked to do so by a Policeman when on a shoot

sorry Axe but thats wrong mate. there is no legal requirement to carry fac/sgc.

the plot thickens

 

whats a man to think ??/

 

 

 

where can we read up on this

 

 

as i dont think its necessary to carry one all the time when shooting as any police man could check on there computer by radio to see if you are cool

 

kirky

 

Sorry guys but, it is written in the 2002 Home Office Guidlines.

 

Section 23.8 reads:

 

Require production of Certificates

 

Section 48 of the 1968 Act provides that

a constable may demand from any person

believed to be in possession of a firearm or

ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968

Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production

of their firearm certificate, or, as the case

may be, their shot gun certificate. Section

48(2) of the 1968 Act provides a power to

seize weapons and ammunition in cases of

non-compliance.

[OldBill]

That's what I wrote you cheeky ******

[Axe]

Sorry Bill, I have no idea how I missed your post.

[palombier]

Axe

 

Your original point; that it is an offence to fail to produce your shotgun/firearm certificate on demand is I believe, wrong. Although S. 48 does say it is an offence........ etc. if you look in the appendix to the Firearms Acts in particular the table of offences, S48(4) only includes the offence of failing to produce a European Firearms pass. Therefore Markbivvy and KIrky are right IMHO.

 

Regards

P

[kirky640]

i have now photo copyed my tickets and they are taken with me

thanks for the idea kip

hope this will do if im unlucky enough to meet plod when out shooting

 

cheers kirky

[mry716]

Do remember that the photos on your old certificate AND the ones at Police HQ are your property.

Ask for them back and if you do not get them ask for compensation.

You WILL get compensation - just as I did.

M

[kip270]

i have now photo copyed my tickets and they are taken with me

thanks for the idea kip

hope this will do if im unlucky enough to meet plod when out shooting

 

cheers kirky

 

No probs mate :blink: If your under Lothian & Borders police they will accept the photocopies :blink:

[Tam]

I double copied mine, firearms one side/shotgun other side & just cut off top 1/3rd section which has your details & photo & cert number. It takes up no space in my wallet - no probs yet

 

ps - where is it written in law that you need to produce a certificate to purchase shotgun cartridges :unsure:

[mossy835]

my flo said that if your licence is away for renewal then its ok if the old one runs out,you will still be covered, but it depends what part of the country you live in,some police are good and some are not.

[baikiel boy]

Hi All , My nightly news paper has an article in it tonight which says that the people in Shropshire face delays when applying for gun licences . West Mercia constabulary firearms and explosives licencing department closed yesterday so staff could start implementing a new national system . National Firearms Licencing Management System means every resident in England and Wales who holds a firearm or shotgun licence will be listed on a single database. West Mercia Department will re-open on March 19th. Every Force will now use NFLMS. They have for some years now asked for your existing licence to be sent in with application for new one. Can't remember what happens about the old photographs from the certificate being replaced. My application went in February still waiting for replacement. bb

[Axe]

Axe

 

Your original point; that it is an offence to fail to produce your shotgun/firearm certificate on demand is I believe, wrong. Although S. 48 does say it is an offence........ etc. if you look in the appendix to the Firearms Acts in particular the table of offences, S48(4) only includes the offence of failing to produce a European Firearms pass. Therefore Markbivvy and KIrky are right IMHO.

 

Regards

P

 

 

I dont know where you are getting this from but I would suggest you have a look here. It clearly states it is an offense.

[baikiel boy]

Hi , Some twenty + years ago two friends of mine were stopped by a police car they were carrying disasembled shotguns about their persons . Only one was noticed , when asked for his certificate he could not produce it , shotgun was taken and he was told to report at the police station with his certificate then he would get the shotgun back . They both went , the officer said put the gun together which they knew could not be done . He had confiscated bits from TWO guns . "Did you have one as well ? -- "Yes" --"You didn't tell me"---"You didn't ask"----certs were shown and parts recieved . Apparently when the officer gets to the station the sergeant had seen the error and the officer had a" roasting". bb

[OldBill]

Axe

 

Your original point; that it is an offence to fail to produce your shotgun/firearm certificate on demand is I believe, wrong. Although S. 48 does say it is an offence........ etc. if you look in the appendix to the Firearms Acts in particular the table of offences, S48(4) only includes the offence of failing to produce a European Firearms pass. Therefore Markbivvy and KIrky are right IMHO.

 

Regards

P

 

 

I dont know where you are getting this from but I would suggest you have a look here. It clearly states it is an offense.

 

 

As AXE points out, not only is it an offence, you will probably be arrested if there is no other means of verifying you are a SGC holder.

[palombier]

Old Bill

 

As I've stated I do not believe that the production applies to UK FAC or SGC holders, but to overseas visitors. Its all very well saying it's an offence but argue my original post that no offence exists. Have you ever heard of someone being prosecuted for an offence of non production of a certificate on demand by a constable?

 

P

[OldBill]

Erm, yes. I've done it myself! (The bloke was an **** tho!).

[palombier]

Old Bill

 

Interesting...did he appear in court, was he cautioned or released without charge or dare i say it was the arrest unlawful? I appreciate you might not want to go into too much detail.

 

P

[markbivvy]

look at it like car insurance, if you produce it no charge.

if you dont your nicked.

[Mungler]

It really is straightforward.

 

48(4) It is an offence for a person who is in possession of a firearm to fail to comply with a demand under subsection 1A above [i.e. a request to produce]

 

The text is there and it ain't that complicated unlike other bits of legislation.

 

Whilst it maybe an offence without a copy of Stones I couldn't tell you what the offence will get you fine / sanction wise. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the plod will remember it when you come to renew.

 

Whilst I have on the odd occasion gone out with my license I do keep copies in handy places (car, gun slip) and normally have my FO's contact card in my wallet.

 

Even applying common sense to this - you got a boot full of shooters and you refuse to answer plods request to see your ticket. Doesn't take a genius to work it all out.