Freedom Must Prevail

[Flashman]

Three days ago Charlie Hebdo was virtually unknown outside its tight circle of devoted readers. Its weekly print run was 60,000, barely a tenth that of its rival, Le Canard Enchainé. Today it is known and lionised on every continent. Its cartoonists are heroes. When those who survived Wednesday’s massacre in Paris produce next week’s issue, a million copies will be printed and they will undoubtedly sell out.

 

If the suspects being sought last night in a forest west of Reims hoped to scare the voices of freedom into mute submission, they failed spectacularly. The shootings were a challenge to western liberal media, so often accused of wielding power without responsibility. To note that the media has risen to the challenge is not self-congratulation but a statement of the inevitable.

 

The hate and violence peddled by Islamic State, al-Qaeda and their hangers-on is delusional. This is not a matter of opinion but of truth, and truth will out. It has been written ineradicably across the web in a wave of defiance and caustic wit, and it confirms that the gunmen, already showing signs of desperation in their choice of soft targets, have inflicted on their cause a serious defeat. France must now turn that defeat to advantage, and the wider Muslim world must learn from it.

 

Calls for French unity in the face of such a tragedy have been movingly answered. As President Hollande met Nicolas Sarkozy at the Elysée Palace and sent invitations to Marine Le Pen and other party leaders, the National Assembly met in special session. The session ended with a spontaneous rendition of La Marseillaise.

 

Moderate French Muslims count themselves among the enfants de la patrie who are the protagonists of the French national anthem. France’s Muslim Council urged imams to condemn all violence “in the strongest possible way”. Mosques, for the most part, observed a minute’s silence that brought even the Paris Metro to a standstill. Muslim children held up placards bearing the by now familiar slogan, “not in my name”.

 

Words have meaning, yet they are also cheap. Seen in a global context, Wednesday’s attack was merely the latest in an appalling litany, and moderate Islam needs to do more to stop it.

 

This implies a vital duty for Muslim clerics who must embrace a new role actively deradicalising their followers. It also imposes an urgent responsibility on Muslim political leaders. One controversial figure who appears to have understood this is Egypt’s president, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. In a remarkable speech to imams last week to mark the birthday of Muhammad, he called for a “religious revolution” to prevent the Islamic world being “lost by our own hands”. He said it was “inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire Islamic world to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world”.

 

What is “inconceivable” to Mr al-Sisi is, of course, happening. His critics accuse him of fostering extremism by driving fundamentalists underground. His agenda is more strategic than moral, but he has an ardent following and he has seen the Muslim world’s leadership vacuum for what it is.

 

Mr al-Sisi is not unique. Najib Razak, Malaysia’s prime minister, has championed moderate political Islam at home and abroad. But too few have joined him in the effort, and Turkey’s President Erdogan has tarnished his legacy before even leaving office by pandering to extremists at the expense of Turkish secularism.

 

The critical distinction between moderate and extreme Islam is ultimately for moderates to draw. It is a fallacy to suppose they have already done enough. They need to get drawing, knowing as Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists did that the pencil is mightier than the Kalashnikov.

[Thunderbird]

Yep.

 

Je Suis Charlie.

[88b]

Well put , words are cheap action by the vast majority of Muslims is needed.

[Blunderbuss]

Agreed. Where can I buy the next copy. Hell where can I subscribe, I'll even learn French!

 

On a separate matter, I thought the Paris thread was closed too way too soon. The reason given was the thread had wandered beyond expressing condolences for those killed?? A major terrorist attack in the capital of our nearest European neighbour, which as I type is still ongoing in a siege and possible hostage situation and we are not allowed to discuss it? Moderating a busy forum involves walking a fine line and generally PW is well moderated, but you called this one wrong guys

Edited January 9, 2015 by Blunderbuss

[Thunderbird]

Agreed. Where can I buy the next copy. Hell where can I subscribe, I'll even learn French!

 

On a separate matter, I thought the Paris thread was closed too way too soon. The reason given was the thread had wandered beyond expressing condolences for those killed?? A major terrorist attack in the capital of our nearest European neighbour, which as I type is still ongoing in a siege and possible hostage situation and we are not allowed to discuss it? Moderating a busy forum involves walking a fine line and generally PW is well moderated, but you called this one wrong guys

 

 

It's closure might be because of the number of comments (many of which most of us probably didn't even get to see) which had to be deleted.

 

This is said in the knowledge that it's well known I sometimes disagree with moderating decisions on this site and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here either Dave.

 

EDIT: I'm pleased to see that the artistic and creative world (along with most of the rest of it it seems) have stood shoulder to shoulder with Charlie Hebdo on this.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Thunderbird

[Blunderbuss]

 

 

It's closure might be because of the number of comments (many of which most of us probably didn't even get to see) which had to be deleted.

 

This is said in the knowledge that it's well known I sometimes disagree with moderating decisions on this site and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here either Dave.

 

Agreed mate. None of the comments I read were that bad, emotions running high yes and as always some opinions I don't share, but nothing outrageous. But as you say there may have been worse deleted. I suppose my point is free speech is under global attack by terrorists. It would be nice to be allowed to express it closer to home on such an important subject.

[Thunderbird]

 

Agreed mate. None of the comments I read were that bad, emotions running high yes and as always some opinions I don't share, but nothing outrageous. But as you say there may have been worse deleted. I suppose my point is free speech is under global attack by terrorists. It would be nice to be allowed to express it closer to home on such an important subject.

 

Amen to that mate.

[Cranfield]

h!

 

On a separate matter, I thought the Paris thread was closed too way too soon. The reason given was the thread had wandered beyond expressing condolences for those killed?? A major terrorist attack in the capital of our nearest European neighbour, which as I type is still ongoing in a siege and possible hostage situation and we are not allowed to discuss it? Moderating a busy forum involves walking a fine line and generally PW is well moderated, but you called this one wrong guys

 

Three warnings were posted by the Moderators in that thread, almost a record number of posts had to be removed and a member was banned for their cumulative posts.

Still some members took no notice.

The least those removed posts did was potentially bring the Pigeon Watch Forums in to disrepute, the worst they could have done was attract further official action.

Its no fun having to sit on a thread all day to protect the site and some members from themselves.

Before anyone can be critical, they need to know the full story.

[KFC]

As a freelance writer I'm always having to consider what I write. Lots of expressions I used years ago are simply not acceptable today and I'm always concious that I may be offending someone so I do feel a connection to Charlie Hebdo.

 

Although not quite as ascerbic I'm a regular reader of Private Eye.

 

So it is in genuine fraternity that I say 'Je suis Charlie'

[Blunderbuss]

Cranfield I don't underestimate the work involved, I've moderated a busy forum myself. I also know there are some nuggets on here who shouldn't be allowed a keyboard and delight in offensive, provocative posts. Remove them by all means. But those people are in a minority and most just want an outlet to discuss a major ongoing world event, with potential ramifications for us all. By and large, that is what I saw happening on the Paris thread, at the core of which was a discussion about an assault on our right to freedom of speech. And then it was closed. There is some degree of irony there. It was your call, fair enough, I'll say no more.

[amateur]

Agreed. Where can I buy the next copy. Hell where can I subscribe, I'll even learn French!

 

 

 

Don't need to, mate ......... just look at the pictures

[Blunderbuss]

Edit:

 

I've removed the image as it had a naughty word in it. But for those grown up enough to see such things,

[Thunderbird]

Edit:

 

I've removed the image as it had a naughty word in it. But for those grown up enough to see such things,

 

That sir, is a work of genius.

[TriBsa]

Most excellent Blunderbuss.

[STOTTO]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-stood-alone-what-does-that-say-about-our-free-press/

 

It would now seem that as a journalist, or editor your reporting and editorial copy is subject to the critical approval of the IPCC, ‘Islamic Press Complaints Commission’, (this is the pervasive seed sown into the collective psyche by an act of terror inflicted upon a brother publication).

 

The fear generated by a similar penalty, ‘as demonstrated in Paris’ befalling them and theirs for any like infringement has the effect of skewing people’s perceptions and really is how terrorism gains ground, a little blood spilt stains a lot of ground!

[figgy]

Isn't there chat rooms on here where like minded folk can discuss topics like this without causing the same Odense on open forum?

[Fisherman Mike]

These political extremists need to be expunged

Including this one..

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/550947/Ukip-leader-Nigel-Farage-Paris-massacre-comments

On a lighter note I've just bought a copy of Salman Rushdie's new book


Buddha the fat *******

As a freelance writer I'm always having to consider what I write. Lots of expressions I used years ago are simply not acceptable today and I'm always concious that I may be offending someone so I do feel a connection to Charlie Hebdo.

Although not quite as ascerbic I'm a regular reader of Private Eye.

So it is in genuine fraternity that I say 'Je suis Charlie'

Me too, je suis détective privé

[Thunderbird]

 

Buddha the fat *******

 

 

Buddhists used to be a soft target mate, but not any more, not since they went all militant recently.

 

Best you get a few joss-sticks going pronto, and get some rice on the go for the begging bowls.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Thunderbird

[Fisherman Mike]

Buddhists used to be a soft target mate, but not any more, not since they went all militant recently.

 

Best you get a few joss-sticks going pronto, and get some rice on the go for the begging bowls.

The Donkeys in the freezer

 

 

[Thunderbird]

Edit:

 

I've removed the image as it had a naughty word in it. But for those grown up enough to see such things,

 

Je Suis Dave.

 

[Blunderbuss]

 

Je Suis Dave.

 

 

 

Merci mon ami

[Malik]

Flashman, i rarely agree with anything you have to say but today i welcome your acknowledgement that there is a difference between moderate and extremist, even if you feel it needs more definition. Sadly a few cannot even see that.

 

I disagree that words are cheap. Standing up and saying "this does not represent me or my faith" is the first step in isolating extremism. You, i and the others on this forum more than likely don't have a chair at cobra meetings so we don't know the entirety of the situation. What we do know is, there are members of the community that are reporting their sons and daughters travelling aboard, are reporting extremism in local mosques and schools and are reporting anything else they find as unacceptable. Every single report does not reach mainstream media and i doubt it ever will, however there are a few cases that do which are easily found.

 

The vast majority of people are moderate people, normal people just getting on with their lives and if they saw something wrong, be it a crime, someone needing medical assistance or extremism. If someone came across it they'd more than likely report it and never get any recognition for it or any media attention for doing it. Nonetheless they still took action...

 

Furthermore, the police officer shot in cold blood on the pavement was a muslim called Ahmed Merabet. He may/may not have agreed with the magazines publications but he certainly paid the ultimate price defending their right of freedom to express themselves.

 

Je Suis Ahmed Et Je Suis Charlie

[Blunderbuss]

Good post Malik

[Fisherman Mike]

In a world population of 7 billion you are always going to get a few religious and fanatical fruitcakes.

 

The trick is recognising and isolating them...and its damn near impossible...

 

While some populations have increased and evolved over thousands of years many have increased and regressed.

[kdubya]

In a world population of 7 billion you are always going to get a few religious and fanatical fruitcakes.

 

The trick is recognising and isolating them...and its damn near impossible...

 

While some populations have increased and evolved over thousands of years many have increased and regressed.

problem is even a small % of 7 billion is a hell of a lot, so hardly a few.anyway je suis charlie et je suis flic at this moment are very apt.

 

KW

Edited January 9, 2015 by kdubya