throttlemonkey Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I cut down 3 spent carts to original length and stuffed with toilet paper, load and cycle by hand to test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hatsan are VERY well known for this problem, and whilst there are times it relates to maintenance or mechanical breakdown, it is commonly the cartridge length/power! I often see posts extolling the virtues of the Hatsan brand, with posters suggesting they wish they never sold theirs as it was brilliant...the obvious question is...well why did you sell it then? ATB! People change guns and cars and sometimes regret the decision. A lot of the "Hatsan Haters" extoll the virtues of the "Label" guns on their resale value and lack of depreciation. Why do they buy them in the first place if it is only to sell them a little later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) People change guns and cars and sometimes regret the decision. A lot of the "Hatsan Haters" extoll the virtues of the "Label" guns on their resale value and lack of depreciation. Why do they buy them in the first place if it is only to sell them a little later? Because people like a change now and again , have you drove the same car since you passed your test ? no of course not , will your great wall hold its value like a toyota hilux , err no . 99% of shooters buy the Hatsan because it is cheap and thats fair enough but you cannot buy cheap and expect the same quality as the top end guns . Despite a few banging on about how great they are I bet most of them would take your arm off if you offered them a straight swap for a beretta , winchester etc. Edited January 26, 2015 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Despite a few banging on about how great they are I bet most of them would take your arm off if you offered them a straight swap for a beretta , winchester etc. no, not at all, just because we buy these guns, does not mean we don't have the funds to buy more expensive, I own my own woods, all my tools, chainsaws,strimmers etc are all imported cheaper items rather than the named brands, they have been used weekly for the last 20 months and are still going strong, and at the cheaper price paid, if and when they fail, I would simply buy another one, rather than having a more expensive item and then having to have yearly services done etc, the same goes for my guns/rifles, they are a work tool, they get the job done no differently from your beretta's winchesters etc, but if I had a cheaper gun/rifle that failed, I'd simply buy another. my fac shotgun (hatsan escort) cost around £450, at a clay shoot we held a few weeks back, another plot holder commented his O/U cost over 3k, I hit as many clays as he did, and I didn't put mine away when it started raining I could go out tomorrow and buy 8, but would it make me a better shot or just a **** Edited January 26, 2015 by stubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I agree with you about changing , guns and cars, sometimes it is regretted sometimes not. Yes and most people know that you get what you pay for. Yes and most people would swop a Hatsan for a Beretta etc. or a Hi Lux for Range Rover. But is there any need for those that love the Label article to keep bashing those that do not have the Label. Those of us that decide to purchase a Hatsan or even a Steed know what we are getting, when there is a problem help and advice is asked for. Get a Beretta etc. is not a really helpful answer, especially if it cannot be afforded. I have yet to see anyone reply to a the "occasional problem" with a Label gun or Vehicle with a scornful mocking comment. To many times on this great forum of ours, some would rather put people down rather than help and advise. Humility and consideration for others are great asset's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I agree with you about changing , guns and cars, sometimes it is regretted sometimes not. Yes and most people know that you get what you pay for. Yes and most people would swop a Hatsan for a Beretta etc. or a Hi Lux for Range Rover. But is there any need for those that love the Label article to keep bashing those that do not have the Label. Those of us that decide to purchase a Hatsan or even a Steed know what we are getting, when there is a problem help and advice is asked for. Get a Beretta etc. is not a really helpful answer, especially if it cannot be afforded. I have yet to see anyone reply to a the "occasional problem" with a Label gun or Vehicle with a scornful mocking comment. To many times on this great forum of ours, some would rather put people down rather than help and advise. Humility and consideration for others are great asset's. I'm not really following that, everything breaks down, its just that Hatsan are much more fussy and prone to it than any other make you can think of. Who is putting down who because of a brand/label? You will not find anyone less interested in brands or labels than me, the Hatsan is cheap in every respect of the word, the original models were appalling, verging on dangerous. Without doubt they are learning and their newer shotgun models are improving (actually their air rifles are quite good on the whole), I don't see anyone shouting about brands, they are shouting about product quality/design/reliability/serviceability/QC, all of which are below par on the Hatsans. And despite what you suggest, the problem with Hatsan remains that a whole load of people DON'T seem to know what they are getting! That's why hardly a week goes by without another problem Hatsan thread! Edited January 26, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAoS Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The length of the cartridge is taken after it has been fired not before it has been fired. If the issue is the *feeding* of cartridges, then I think that Phaedra is correct to cite cartridge OAL. Regards, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I cannot see where anyone has been put down at all , one or two people have just stated a fact ,that you get what you pay for , I also offered advice on what the issue could be. As I said in a previous post Hatsans are brought by 99% of people on price alone and that is fair enough , if its all i could afford then I would rather have one than nothing , but I would not buy a Skoda and expect the performance of a Ferrari . You only have to look on any forum to see what problems these guns suffer from yet people still buy them and then suffer the same problems and for everyone who has one that "never misses a beat" there are two who have problems. I'm not really following that, everything breaks down, its just that Hatsan are much more fussy and prone to it than any other make you can think of. Who is putting down who because of a brand/label? You will not find anyone less interested in brands or labels than me, the Hatsan is cheap in every respect of the word, the original models were appalling, verging on dangerous. Without doubt they are learning and their newer shotgun models are improving (actually their air rifles are quite good on the whole), I don't see anyone shouting about brands, they are shouting about product quality/design/reliability/serviceability/QC, all of which are below par on the Hatsans. And despite what you suggest, the problem with Hatsan remains that a whole load of people DON'T seem to know what they are getting! That's why hardly a week goes by without another problem Hatsan thread! Perfectly put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pull2007 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 how come anyone brings hatsan into forums there are massive arguments about these guns the starting question was why it wouldn't lift 2nd shell which I would like to know the solution not how bad they are I only use mine for hide shooting because I don't want to trash a expensive gun in the field most autos jam now and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1984 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 how come anyone brings hatsan into forums there are massive arguments about these guns the starting question was why it wouldn't lift 2nd shell which I would like to know the solution not how bad they are I only use mine for hide shooting because I don't want to trash a expensive gun in the field most autos jam now and again I think most people have autos as a cheap " chuck about gun " both me and my brother use them for the same reason as you. As its been suggested maybe the trigger assembly needs a good fettle, the carrier seems to have less tension / spring compared with mine. Maybe its covered in **** or maybe its wornout, ill let you know the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think the point Bakerboy was making is that, when someone does have a problem with one and writes a post asking for help, then posts saying "you shouldn't have bought it" could/should be avoided. Those posts are fine if someone is contemplating buying one and wants advice, pro's and cons, but it can't be nice for those who do have one knowing they can't get some helpful advice the same way we all do on other makes of guns. Same goes for when I have an issue with my Landy, I have a complex about it now and can't build up the courage to ask I feel all isolated and alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Maybe this will bring a bit of levity to the thread. I had a little problem with the Steed today , and I am due out with the Hatsan tomorrow . Lets hope I have not tempted fate. Cosd, you have hit the nail on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Might seem a bit obvious but when did escort in question last have it's O-ring replaced and is the current one fitted correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1984 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Might seem a bit obvious but when did escort in question last have it's O-ring replaced and is the current one fitted correctly? Yes its fitted correctly and has been on around a year, hes ordered new today as there only a couple of quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the issue is the *feeding* of cartridges, then I think that Phaedra is correct to cite cartridge OAL. Regards, Mark. Thank gawd for that. That's what I thought until BB's comment threw me. I was wondering what I'd missed. If he IS shooting tomorrow, I hope he takes the cartridges that haven't been fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the issue is the *feeding* of cartridges, then I think that Phaedra is correct to cite cartridge OAL. Regards, Mark. What I meant to say was/ is, that a 70 mil cartridge is only 70 mil after it has been fired. Before being fired the cartridge will measure approximately 60 mil. Apologies if I did not made myself clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pull2007 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 well said cosd totally agree hope rich can figure the problem out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hatsan are VERY well known for this problem, and whilst there are times it relates to maintenance or mechanical breakdown, it is commonly the cartridge length/power! I often see posts extolling the virtues of the Hatsan brand, with posters suggesting they wish they never sold theirs as it was brilliant...the obvious question is...well why did you sell it then? ATB! I bought a mint sleeper Browning fast loading fusion evolve elite. I never use it ..... don't like getting it wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just a thought but would it not be worth letting a gunsmith take a look At it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 3 pages and only two suggestions...... strip it and check the spring and lifter assembly failure to lift is not down to cartridge choice IMO failure to eject clean and chamber often is If it needs tap to help lift it lacks the power to lift clean I can't remember the mechanism off hand, here is the exploded diagram. http://www.legacysports.com/uploads/images/Warranty_Cards/Escort_Instruction_Manual_GB.pdf I would also strip the mag tube and check the free running of the spring. most often overlooked part when stripping it imparts a lot of energy into the released and as yet unfired cartridge I had a Hatsan, worked fine with most but some carts it just didnt like (FWIW i only sold it as it was a left hooker and I am after a right hooker now having failed to get on shooting off my left!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1984 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 3 pages and only two suggestions...... strip it and check the spring and lifter assembly failure to lift is not down to cartridge choice IMO failure to eject clean and chamber often is If it needs tap to help lift it lacks the power to lift clean I can't remember the mechanism off hand, here is the exploded diagram. http://www.legacysports.com/uploads/images/Warranty_Cards/Escort_Instruction_Manual_GB.pdf I would also strip the mag tube and check the free running of the spring. most often overlooked part when stripping it imparts a lot of energy into the released and as yet unfired cartridge I had a Hatsan, worked fine with most but some carts it just didnt like (FWIW i only sold it as it was a left hooker and I am after a right hooker now having failed to get on shooting off my left!) Thanks for the diagram ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgun Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Did you try to eject and feed manually? Put a live one (or 2) in mag and an empty one in chamber and manipulate via handle. If you wish, skip the one in chamber. Good luck. Edited January 27, 2015 by longgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1984 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Did you try to eject and feed manually? Put a live one (or 2) in mag and an empty one in chamber and manipulate via handle. If you wish, skip the one in chamber. Good luck. I dont think he has yet, i think thats something to try at the clayground this week when we are there. If it was to lift it this way what would be the problem when shooting normally ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl1 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Needs a good clean had the same problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1984 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Needs a good clean had the same problem And all was well after a good fettle ? ( hope so ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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