Deer Rifle in .308

[Scotty99]

I am looking at getting a deer rifle in .308 for both woodland and possibly hill staking. Does anyone have any advice. I am think about possibly a Sako 85 or A7 - what has been you experience of these two or do you have some better suggestions.

[Dekers]

Keep it light if you are shooting woodland and hills!

 

There isn't a better, it simply comes down to your preference and pocket, everyone has the best rifle for them, and they are all different!

 

[Mungler]

Keep it light, keep it short and get it in plastic.

[flynny]

Keep it light if you are shooting woodland and hills!

 

There isn't a better, it simply comes down to your preference and pocket, everyone has the best rifle for them, and they are all different!

 

Couldnt have put it any better myself,

 

sound advice

 

Atb

 

Flynny

[neutron619]

The only thing I'll add, is if it's a toss-up between two rifles you like and one has a tighter twist, go for the tighter one and give yourself the possibility of the whole range of 110-220gr bullets.

 

A .308 with a heavy (200gr+), round-nosed bullet fired at moderate velocity (i.e. 2250fps) is just the ticket for woodland stalking, where most shots will be under 100 yards and within a 2" MPBR out to 130-150 yards.

 

On the hill, a tighter twist will give you the stability you need to fling the long-ogive boat-tailed 150's, 165's and 180's as flat, as far and as fast as possible, with reasonable (i.e. estimable) drops out to 300-400 yards.

 

That said, it's not clear cut. I've got a 1-in-12" rifle that'll stabilize a 220gr RNSP(!), so some "standard" barrels will do the whole lot.

Edited February 18, 2015 by neutron619

[Underdog]

The only thing I'll add, is if it's a toss-up between two rifles you like and one has a tighter twist, go for the tighter one and give yourself the possibility of the whole range of 110-220gr bullets.

 

 

A .308 with a heavy (200gr+), round-nosed bullet fired at moderate velocity (i.e. 2250fps) is just the ticket for woodland stalking, where most shots will be under 100 yards and within a 2" MPBR out to 130-150 yards.

 

On the hill, a tighter twist will give you the stability you need to fling the long-ogive boat-tailed 150's, 165's and 180's as flat, as far and as fast as possible, with reasonable (i.e. estimable) drops out to 300-400 yards.

 

That said, it's not clear cut. I've got a 1-in-12" rifle that'll stabilize a 220gr RNSP(!), so some "standard" barrels will do the whole lot.

Always wanted to try 200-220# bullets in 308. I imagine they are very gentle to shoot, is that a fair guess?

What kind of charge weights can you get?

Edited February 18, 2015 by Underdog

[neutron619]

 

The only thing I'll add, is if it's a toss-up between two rifles you like and one has a tighter twist, go for the tighter one and give yourself the possibility of the whole range of 110-220gr bullets.

 

A .308 with a heavy (200gr+), round-nosed bullet fired at moderate velocity (i.e. 2250fps) is just the ticket for woodland stalking, where most shots will be under 100 yards and within a 2" MPBR out to 130-150 yards.

 

On the hill, a tighter twist will give you the stability you need to fling the long-ogive boat-tailed 150's, 165's and 180's as flat, as far and as fast as possible, with reasonable (i.e. estimable) drops out to 300-400 yards.

 

That said, it's not clear cut. I've got a 1-in-12" rifle that'll stabilize a 220gr RNSP(!), so some "standard" barrels will do the whole lot.

 

Always wanted to try 200-220# bullets in 308. I imagine they are very gentle to shoot, is that a fair guess?

What kind of charge weights can you get?

 

Hi Underdog,

 

First the annoying but necessary bit:

 

Disclaimer (aimed at anyone reading this at much later date): The following reloading information is specific to my rifle, uses unpublished data and exceeds maximum OAL for a .308 Winchester round - do not use it under any circumstances.

 

Second, the load(s):

 

The existing load I have is actually a series of loads firing any one of a range of 150-220gr bullets, both cast and jacketed at subsonic / slightly supersonic velocities using IMR Trail Boss. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but the charges are anything between about 7gr and whatever you can get into the case under the bullet without compressing the powder (about 13-14gr dependent on bullet / seating depth). Obviously they're mild / non-existent in the recoil department, but they are also not deer legal and I don't shoot them at anything living on principle - they drop about a foot at 100 yards, zeroed at 50 yards, so they're not practical for hunting.

 

The load I'm currently working on uses a Hornady 220gr RNSP on top of 39-42gr of Reloder 17 with an OAL of 2.900".

 

I'll know a lot more about that one when I've had a chance to run through the ladder at a range next month, but QuickLoad suggests that 41.1gr should give 2254fps with an energy of about 2475ftlbs. From the handful of test rounds I've fired, recoil in that charge range is not markedly reduced from a full power 150gr round at 2750ftlbs, but there is some reduction. I've not yet tried it and probably won't, but the QL-predicted maximum for that round is around the 45gr mark with an energy approaching 2900ftlbs (I think - I'm writing this from memory), so it could potentially recoil more, loaded hot.

 

The point of trying the low MV / heavy bullet is that I've never shot a deer more than 100 yards away. The more experience I get / the more I read about hunting with a rifle, the more I'm convinced that unless you're trying to stretch out to prairie-type ranges of 400-500 yards, you don't need a super-fast magnum calibre to knock the deer / fox / whatever over and that actually, they're just a panacea for laziness in some respects. Ok, so you get a couple of inches less drop at 300 yards, but if you have to remember that you're shooting 7" over instead of 9", you're still having to remember and take aim accordingly aren't you? And if you can't tell 7" or 9" relative to the size of an average deer, should you be shooting? I don't know, but at 300 yards it's not much difference. Of course, I'm also a hypocrite, since I'm likely to ask for one of those super-fast barrel-burning magnum calibres on my renewal, just to see if I can get it...

 

Before anyone gets worked up, I'm only asking the questions and stating prejudice - I don't have the experience to talk about this stuff with any kind of expertise.

 

Anyway, I've had a few deer from various people in the past that weren't shot by me. I can always tell who's used the BT's and who's used plain SP's. In my (limited) experience, I haven't noticed that plugging them side to side is any better or worse than "blowing up" a bullet in the chest cavity, but the mess I have to clean up afterwards when I butcher the animal is worse / more hassle with the tipped bullets. I also think that back in them olde days, when the usual way of increasing energy was to use a bigger bullet, they were probably onto something. I'd rather like a .45-70, but in the absence variation / money for that, I decided to try and make a .30 shoot a bit like one. It's a work in progress, but I think it might turn out good.

 

I don't know if shooting 220gr pills at muntjac is a good idea until I try it, but I suspect there wont be any real difference between that and another SP bullet - perhaps they'll fall over even faster, in which case I'll be pleased that they're suffering less than they might before they expire.

 

Anyway - happy to talk more about this but with all that am in danger of hijacking the thread, if I haven't already, so drop me a PM if you have more questions?

 

Apologies to the OP.

 

Adam.

[Underdog]

Nice one Adam. I understand exactly where you are coming from.

Your points are why I shot a 30/30 for years, no problem on large reds!

I too would of liked a 45/70!

Heck a muzzleloading rifle would do me!

 

U.

[Scotty99]

Great responses guys very much appreciated. I'll definitely consider the barrel twist rate and likely bullet weights. I am yet to get into reloading but it is on my to do list.

[Scotty99]

A couple of responses have mentioned keeping it light, plastic and short. Light and Plastic I am onboard with, but how short is good. I have a preference for longer barrel lengths ( a hang over from shotguns where I prefer a 30 in barrel). So I would think a deer rifle with a 20 in barrel to be too short and 24 in probably too long so I'm thinking about 22 ins as being about right - what do your guys think.

[flynny]

My 308 is 22" and my 243 and 223 are 20" and I can't notice any difference in handling or accuracy , but it's your own preference mate, pick a few up with and without mod attached to see what suits you best pal,IMO 20" is not too short and 24" not too long, but it's you who's shooting it mate,

 

 

Atb

Flynny

[neutron619]

A couple of responses have mentioned keeping it light, plastic and short. Light and Plastic I am onboard with, but how short is good. I have a preference for longer barrel lengths ( a hang over from shotguns where I prefer a 30 in barrel). So I would think a deer rifle with a 20 in barrel to be too short and 24 in probably too long so I'm thinking about 22 ins as being about right - what do your guys think.

 

Well, remember you may want to put a mod on the front, so that will add some length. My .308 is 24" and then has a reflex mod on the front which adds a few more inches to that. It is looong but I wanted a 24" barrel (same reason as you Scotty) and I didn't want to compromise my hearing by not using a mod, so it being slightly awkward on occasion is a price I'm willing to pay. (My deer stalking is the only shooting I do where I don't use hearing protection - I will get damage from a handful of shots a year, but I'm crossing my fingers that it won't be too much.)

 

Most modern .308 hunting rifles will be 22" - some 24" exceptions exist though: don't quote me, but I think they include the Weatherby Vanguard II (good value for the money, plastic and accurate), the Heym SR20/21 (what I've got) and some of the Remington 700 models. You don't need a 24" barrel, but you will get 50-80fps more out of it for a given load over a 22". Other than that, hard to see what the advantage is, except that one can always shorten a barrel, but one can't lengthen it, so you have the option if you err on the longer side. The disadvantage is that longer barrels will be relatively less rigid, so it's actually easier to get good accuracy out of a shorter barrel, assuming you have the minimum length required to actually stabilize the bullet in the first place.

 

Flynny is right though - it's going to be your rifle, and it (hunting) is a personal thing, so choose something that matches the spec you want but also appeals to your aesthetic sense - your heart, so to speak.

Edited February 18, 2015 by neutron619

[Underdog]

308 is efficient in short barrels. I was getting 3160fps with a hprnady 110# v-max out of my 20" barrel.

Heavy bullets suffered a little mind.

[Psyxologos]

See if you can shoot a few and decide what suits you best. I own an A bolt in .308 and think it is the best choice I could have made. It is very personal, only you know what you will get on and shoot well with.

[Scotty99]

Some really good feedback on barrel length so thanks for that. I think I will need to go and handle / shoot a few of different barrel lengths with and without mod. I'll also try an over barrel mod on a longer 24in barrel. Very interested in Fisters comments about the extraction problems on the 85 they market the controlled feed and clean extraction as feature of this rifle so maybe I will look at the T3 as well.

 

Many thanks all.

[Mungler]

Get yourself one of these. It does everything it should (and with absolute reliability and consistency) and the ladies absolutely love the way it looks.

 

 

Seriously though, if you like low maintenance (no wood), integral bipod (saving a oner right there) and two integral magazines (saving another oner right there) and a gun that is entirely sensible, practical and out of the box accurate then it's the rifle for you.

 

Oh and don't forget:

 

1. it's got a weaver rail right there - why oh why oh why do rifle manufacturers use anything else? Oh the stories I could recount on trying to get extra high mounts to fit a (wide) scope on a Bruno in .22 hornet. What a pain that was - never again.

2. it's got swivels and fixing points everywhere - add a sling or go mad tactical and bolt a torch on, no problem it's ready to go. No need to spend a small fortune at Midway getting adaptors and fixings and shizzle.

3. it's got a locking bolt and a thumb wheel operated safety - you need to play with a few rifles to understand just how brilliant a locking bolt and a thumb wheel top operated safety are

 

Mine got bounced out the back of a van. No stress (the scope was a Swaro and bless 'em they serviced it for nothing) and the gun just bounced. A wipe over with a wet one and we're back in business. No crying over dented wood or getting the steam iron out.

 

The end.

[Underdog]

Pretty light I believe too

[Berettacocker]

Get yourself one of these. It does everything it should (and with absolute reliability and consistency) and the ladies absolutely love the way it looks.

 

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Seriously though, if you like low maintenance (no wood), integral bipod (saving a oner right there) and two integral magazines (saving another oner right there) and a gun that is entirely sensible, practical and out of the box accurate then it's the rifle for you.

 

Oh and don't forget:

 

1. it's got a weaver rail right there - why oh why oh why do rifle manufacturers use anything else? Oh the stories I could recount on trying to get extra high mounts to fit a (wide) scope on a Bruno in .22 hornet. What a pain that was - never again.

2. it's got swivels and fixing points everywhere - add a sling or go mad tactical and bolt a torch on, no problem it's ready to go. No need to spend a small fortune at Midway getting adaptors and fixings and shizzle.

3. it's got a locking bolt and a thumb wheel operated safety - you need to play with a few rifles to understand just how brilliant a locking bolt and a thumb wheel top operated safety are

 

Mine got bounced out the back of a van. No stress (the scope was a Swaro and bless 'em they serviced it for nothing) and the gun just bounced. A wipe over with a wet one and we're back in business. No crying over dented wood or getting the steam iron out.

 

The end.

should go in the ugly guns post! to the OP you won't do wrong with a do it all .308

[Rem223]

I have a Sako A7 stainless in .308 and a Sako 85 stainless in .243 Of the two I prefer the A7. Aside from the plastic magazine and bolt shroud there is little to choose between them. The A7 is pretty much a Sako 75 with a cheaper stock and the aforementioned changes to magazine and bolt shroud. I haven't had any extraction issues personally with either rifle.

[andrew f]

Nice to have a bit of weight to a gun in my opinion

[Mungler]

should go in the ugly guns post!

 

No way, the chicks love it. Never a more saucy rifle was ever made.

[Dougy]

 

No way, the chicks love it. Never a more saucy rifle was ever made.

They'd love it even more if it was a 30.06.

;-))

[dodeer]

My advice is buy a secondhand blaser, and use hornady 150g SST for everything.

[kcrabtree]

Get yourself one of these. It does everything it should (and with absolute reliability and consistency) and the ladies absolutely love the way it looks.

 

 

Seriously though, if you like low maintenance (no wood), integral bipod (saving a oner right there) and two integral magazines (saving another oner right there) and a gun that is entirely sensible, practical and out of the box accurate then it's the rifle for you.

 

Oh and don't forget:

 

1. it's got a weaver rail right there - why oh why oh why do rifle manufacturers use anything else? Oh the stories I could recount on trying to get extra high mounts to fit a (wide) scope on a Bruno in .22 hornet. What a pain that was - never again.

2. it's got swivels and fixing points everywhere - add a sling or go mad tactical and bolt a torch on, no problem it's ready to go. No need to spend a small fortune at Midway getting adaptors and fixings and shizzle.

3. it's got a locking bolt and a thumb wheel operated safety - you need to play with a few rifles to understand just how brilliant a locking bolt and a thumb wheel top operated safety are

 

Mine got bounced out the back of a van. No stress (the scope was a Swaro and bless 'em they serviced it for nothing) and the gun just bounced. A wipe over with a wet one and we're back in business. No crying over dented wood or getting the steam iron out.

 

The end.

Yes but what is it!

[DaveT]

How's in 308 is a good reliable rifle, mine dies the trick