RossEM Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Some interesting replies here, lots of angles I hadn't considered. There seems to be a high demand recently for new guns that cover all bases from game to clays, which is no bad thing, common advice has always been "get one gun and stick with it." However I've noticed that many of the new generation over and unders, such as Bettinsoli, handle like railway sleepers. Beretta and Browning both have their own often-copied dimensions which are equally loved and hated, but at least both have good handling characteristics which suit particular types of build. Recently I was comparing some 20 bores we had at work; a Beretta EL Gold Pigeon over and under, a Ugartechea 601 side by side and a new Webley 912. In contrast to the Beretta and the Ugartechea, the Webley was absolutely terrible in terms of its standard dimensions. The barrels were overlong at 30", the weight was 7lbs which is too much for a 20 bore, and the stock was way too long! Don't get me wrong, they're still good value for money but not a patch on the other two. In my opinion Browning and Remington semi automatics and pumps have needlessly large dimensions in comparison with Benelli and even Hatsan, making the balance somewhere between girder and treetrunk. A long way from a nice old Birmingham-made 16 bore boxlock. I do think that old (and some brand new top-end) side by sides suffer from not having all the bells and whistles such as multichokes steel proofing etc, and often have issues with wall thickness (which won't automatically be checked if the shop selling them has no gunsmith.) I think the situation would improve if there were more new side by side guns available with the single trigger/pistol grip and multichoke configuration, and at the same prices as comparable over & unders, as they may therefore be more of an option for buyers who are used to over and unders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 My first shotgun was an over and under. I still have it and shoot it. I then bought a side by side and my world changed. For the worse, I should add. I could not hit a barn door with it. I thought it was the gun, so I tried a friend's and again I was missing easy shots. It turns out I am a terrible shot with a side by side as I am left eye dominant and right handed, and that messes my whole perception of targets. I have sold the side by side and got a semi auto. Immediately I saw an improvement in my shooting. Side by side guns are great, but not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 My gun of choice for most of my shooting is a Berretta 20g OU - one of the smarter SP models - but I love a couple of days with the old SBS, a Black Sabel De Lux, which really fits me well. I stood next to the head keeper on beaters day on a relatively new shoot and took a cock (overhead), a red leg (going to my left and slightly behind) and a woodcock (crossing in front) with three shots. He asked me how many days I shot annually!! Didn't shoot much more so will remember that day for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 The market for quality sbs guns is still pretty strong-we are talking early 20th century English guns. The use of O/U guns is quite new when you consider the history of shooting in this country. A quality,cased English gun will cost you less than the expensive mass produced modern offerings and will increase in value as well as giving you a lifetime of pleasure-the handling is also far superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 My first shotgun was an over and under. I still have it and shoot it. I then bought a side by side and my world changed. For the worse, I should add. I could not hit a barn door with it. I thought it was the gun, so I tried a friend's and again I was missing easy shots. It turns out I am a terrible shot with a side by side as I am left eye dominant and right handed, and that messes my whole perception of targets. I have sold the side by side and got a semi auto. Immediately I saw an improvement in my shooting. Side by side guns are great, but not for me. I have the same dominance issue the other way around, shoot left handed, right eye dominant. I almost exclusively shoot with my right eye shut however. The majority of my shooting is done with 12b 30inch o/u or 28inch semi auto. I also have a straight hand double trigger Leech 16 bore SBS which has been in our family for about 4 generations, I use it on walked up days and occasionally driven and pigeon shooting. I shoot nearly as well with the 16 as I do with the 12 bores, after I've had a day out with the Leech it always makes me think the o/u is really over engineered compared to the sbs, it just feels right and the more modern guns feel like a step backwards in comparison. It also nice to have something different on the peg I keep toying with changing the 12b o/u for a 20b or 16b o/u as the 12 seems so cumbersome in comparison, most of the guys in our Syndicate use 20s these days. I'd keep the 12 semi for foxing and vermin control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have a 16 bore blne which I love. It's as small and light as a sbs can be for me without being toy like. The main problem in have with buying side by sides is their fit. I am 6'4" and most old sbs guns were not made for people my size. I think guns were also made for people wearing thicker clothing than we do today. As a result on most guns I'm faced with the choice of a wooden extension (rarely nice), a very long chunk of ebonite or a slip on pad. I think anyone who starts on a 8lb over and under will soon see the joy in a sbs when they start shooting game and carry the gun in hand all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny thomas Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have a 16 bore blne which I love. It's as small and light as a sbs can be for me without being toy like. The main problem in have with buying side by sides is their fit. I am 6'4" and most old sbs guns were not made for people my size. I think guns were also made for people wearing thicker clothing than we do today. As a result on most guns I'm faced with the choice of a wooden extension (rarely nice), a very long chunk of ebonite or a slip on pad. I think anyone who starts on a 8lb over and under will soon see the joy in a sbs when they start shooting game and carry the gun in hand all day. I'm 6'4" as well I've got an aya countryman with I think about 14.5" lop its a cosy fit but I shoot as well with"old bessie" as my boys call it as I do with my semi .We only shoot clays and I mostly use the semi now but I do love old bessie and she's kept for sunday best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Aaaaagh! Just been out and noticed the stock has cracked!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny thomas Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Aaaaagh! Just been out and noticed the stock has cracked!!!! Yeah that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I don't shoot so well with my SBS guns, but there is something enjoyable about using them - I guess it feels like being part of a long tradition and they just look "right". It's special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I best get some wood glue then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 When I started driven game shooting all you ever saw was Side by sides, my Miroku was the only over and under that I saw for maybe 10 years. These days its unusual to see a SBS, still got an AYA No2 that usually I shoot well with but the last time it came out was an utter disaster, one drive, 18 cartridges for one bird and that not picked. Mega pee take time as you can imagine, but swopping it for the 687 made not much difference on the next drive where I was in it, 24 carts for 6. Usually I am around 1 for 3 overall, not brilliant but not to bad as they are all good birds on 50 yard spaced pegs. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I best get some wood glue then. I've done some testing and research on the strength of glued joints, your stock would do well to have the surface of the wood cleaned with pure acetone to remove any oils that have soaked into it, then glue it with slow epoxy resin ( it can make a strong joint even if there is not tight wood-to-wood contact, unlike some glues ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 When I started driven game shooting all you ever saw was Side by sides, my Miroku was the only over and under that I saw for maybe 10 years. These days its unusual to see a SBS, still got an AYA No2 that usually I shoot well with but the last time it came out was an utter disaster, one drive, 18 cartridges for one bird and that not picked. Mega pee take time as you can imagine, but swopping it for the 687 made not much difference on the next drive where I was in it, 24 carts for 6. Usually I am around 1 for 3 overall, not brilliant but not to bad as they are all good birds on 50 yard spaced pegs. A That's called an off day and nothing to do with a guns type! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Nothing hangs over your arm like a s.b.s. I am fortunate to own a trio, a Webley, BLNE with 2.5" chambers, A McRirrick BLEJ with 2.75" chambers (bored for driven partridge right tight left open) & my favourite an Army & Navy BLNE with 3" chambers all straight hand stocks & same L.O.P. .Regards the broken stock, I have repaired similar breaks in past,& I used an old fashioned bread poultice to draw oil from stock& personally I would add an angled dowell glued to a hole drilled across stock,A piece of an old stock turned to fit & a little care can make a repair blend in . Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Im just about to go for a wonder up the fields, intendeding to take the O/U but i know when i undo the cabinat ill go for the sbs ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cueball Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Not long returned to shooting I have a beretta 626 which had stayed in my dad's cabinet during my break. On my return to shooting I decided to take it out on clays just for old times sake before selling to fund a decent o/u. Had a great day and couldnt part with it. I have got to say regardless of clay or game I really enjoy using a sxs with a straight grip and dt. It is just so enjoyable. One of those guns I can never see me selling. Even when I use it for clays despite its light weight after 100 clays I had no real discomfort using 28gm loads. I am the odd one out at the grounds though. Next I need to get a mint no.2 when funds permit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daystate 177 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) This weekend just gone opened the safe and went to get the silver pigeon out and thought no take the no2 instead, so off I went 1st stand I put the gun on the rack and sure enough 2 lads asked is that an no2 mate, yes it is lol, I love the look the feel the history behind it and the fact I shot a great round with it better than my ou So next week it will go again never when the beretta is in a rack do people comment but everywhere I've shot the aya people do. Edited May 19, 2015 by daystate 177 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 It would be good for the gun trade if the side by side was to return to popularity, a lot of sadly underused guns are hanging about at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 That's called an off day and nothing to do with a guns type! :-) Agreed, but if t was to easy you would soon get bored. Like all sports it has a habit of kicking you in the pants when you least expect it. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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