hugh hickey Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Do I need to have a dsc1 to shoot muntjac and are they classed as vermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Need or must is not prescribed by law, the lucky dip will be what force you deal with, and how much you want push back on ridiculous conditions put upon you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You don't need one but as above you may not get deer on your fac without one. Is yours an open very? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDaveO84 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Muntjac are not classed as vermin they are protected along with other species of deer apart from they do not have a close season. The minimum calibres/MV apply to them. As others have said it depends on your force if they insist you have dsc1. I'm under the met and my feo wouldn't allow me a deer calibre without it. Depends how much you want to argue the case with them as kyska says. Edited May 20, 2015 by MrDaveO84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm under the met and my feo wouldn't allow me a deer calibre without it. Depends how much you want to argue the case with them as kyska says. That's funny, i'm under the met too, and i was granted an open FAC with deer caliber, without the DSC1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDaveO84 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) When did you get your FAC mate? Also what part of London you in? Edited May 20, 2015 by MrDaveO84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 When did you get your FAC mate? Also what part of London you in? Last year mate, and i'm in South London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDaveO84 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I'm East London, how weird that it's different. Is your cert open then? Edited May 20, 2015 by MrDaveO84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Is your cert open then? Yes it is, with a .270 and a 9.3x62 on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You don't need one but as above you may not get deer on your fac without one. Is yours an open very? Mine says dear and I never asked , not told them but then a gain I won't shoot nor even though I've had them walk with in ten foot of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Bullet depending on how accurate your signature is do have a deer legal calibre? .22LR and .17HMR aren't deer legal are they? .22CF min, normally a .222 or .22-250? 1000ft/lbs and 50 grain projectile at .220 or larger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Bullet depending on how accurate your signature is do have a deer legal calibre? .22LR and .17HMR aren't deer legal are they? .22CF min, normally a .222 or .22-250? 1000ft/lbs and 50 grain projectile at .220 or larger Minimum deer legal caliber in England and Wales is .240... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 England and Wales For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only- a rifle with a minimum calibre of not less than .220 inches and muzzle energy of not less than 1000 foot pounds and a bullet weight of not less than 50 grains may be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Do a DSC1 for your own benefit - there's some really useful stuff in there and it will give you some independent assessment of your shooting ability. Gives you a chance to network a bit too & talk to experienced stalkers. Would you know which one to shoot if there was more than one within range? As said .220" or greater, 50gr minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 England and Wales For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only- a rifle with a minimum calibre of not less than .220 inches and muzzle energy of not less than 1000 foot pounds and a bullet weight of not less than 50 grains may be used. That's correct, i should have state this myself, but I haven't got CWD or munties on my ground mate, so i forgot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomblincoe Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If your certificate says "Deer" OR its says "Any other Lawful Quarry" AND you have a suitable calibre rifle (.220 calibre with ME >100 ft/lbs and bullet weight >50 gr) then you can legally shoot Muntjac. Only shoot heavily pregnant does as they breed all year round and could have dependant young otherwise. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If your certificate says "Deer" OR its says "Any other Lawful Quarry" AND you have a suitable calibre rifle (.220 calibre with ME >100 ft/lbs and bullet weight >50 gr) then you can legally shoot Muntjac. Only shoot heavily pregnant does as they breed all year round and could have dependant young otherwise. Tom I'm sure any advice you get on the Internet is fine but I'm not convinced AOLQ covers muntjac. I'd want to have deer specifically listed on my FAC before shooting them. You can also shoot the male ones, but if you are shooting females either shoot the heavily pregnant ones as above, or wait to see if they have any dependant young following them and shoot those first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm sure any advice you get on the Internet is fine but I'm not convinced AOLQ covers muntjac. Muntjac is legal quarry , therefore is covered under AOLQ, providing you got the relevant caliber. I do not have deer listed on my ticked and i'm covered from fox to red deer and wild boar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDaveO84 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Muntjac is legal quarry , therefore is covered under AOLQ, providing you got the relevant caliber. I do not have deer listed on my ticked and i'm covered from fox to red deer and wild boar. +1 spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomblincoe Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't think the phrase "Any other lawful quarry" is open to much interpretation??? The only debate is over the word "quarry" it is doubtful this would include dispatch of livestock for example but there is no doubt that deer are a quarry species. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm sure any advice you get on the Internet is fine but I'm not convinced AOLQ covers muntjac. I'd want to have deer specifically listed on my FAC before shooting them. You can also shoot the male ones, but if you are shooting females either shoot the heavily pregnant ones as above, or wait to see if they have any dependant young following them and shoot those first. My fac doesn't state any animal vermin nor deer but is open for all cals and I also shoot the odd deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm sure any advice you get on the Internet is fine but I'm not convinced AOLQ covers muntjac. I'd want to have deer specifically listed on my FAC before shooting them. You can also shoot the male ones, but if you are shooting females either shoot the heavily pregnant ones as above, or wait to see if they have any dependant young following them and shoot those first. Sorry mate as the other guys have said I think you are incorrect here. As long as you meet the minimum criteria for calibre, bullet weight and mv it matters not if deer is not specified on your ticket but AOLQ is. The same applies for shooting a fox with a rifle specified for deer and AOLQ. I have a .270 which states deer and AOLQ which means fox is fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Sorry mate as the other guys have said I think you are incorrect here. As long as you meet the minimum criteria for calibre, bullet weight and mv it matters not if deer is not specified on your ticket but AOLQ is. The same applies for shooting a fox with a rifle specified for deer and AOLQ. I have a .270 which states deer and AOLQ which means fox is fair game. Happy to be educated but couldn't find it officially written anywhere that that is the case. The issue I have is with the "O" ("other") - if a licence allowed shooting "any legal quarry" then deer, fox etc. are fair game but the "other" implies that something should be listed before it. Not for me to enforce the law but I'd like deer specifically mentioned on my licence before I start shooting them, belt and braces if you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Firearms law is so patchy considering live quarry is being shot, my force will not issue an AOLQ anymore, they say its for legal reasons ??? You could have a .22lr and 17hmr with AOLQ on your license, with this you could in theory shoot boar as there is no LEGAL required calibre, but should you be caught doing such act of causing an animal unnecessary suffering then you would be breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Happy to be educated but couldn't find it officially written anywhere that that is the case. The issue I have is with the "O" ("other") - if a licence allowed shooting "any legal quarry" then deer, fox etc. are fair game but the "other" implies that something should be listed before it. Not for me to enforce the law but I'd like deer specifically mentioned on my licence before I start shooting them, belt and braces if you like It's simple - these days you most often get your FAC for one species - i.e. your main quarry species - and they tack on AOLQ on the end so you can cover all eventualities. This came out of BASC and the other shooting organisations petitioning the Firearms Licensing Working Group (led by Chief Constable Andy Marsh) for the AOLQ condition to become standard. This recommendation was accepted in 2013 - there's a letter from CC Marsh to all the other Chief Constables informing them of the new "best practice" somewhere online - because the police wanted less paperwork for variations and shooters were fed up of having to pay £26 if a fox moved in on their deer permissions and the landowner wanted rid of it. Ultimately, it works because a single legal species is sufficient justification to satisfy "good reason" in law. Hence the certificate must state at least one species per firearm, but it doesn't need a whole list. Previously, it was indeed the case that every species requested had to be listed (or an AOLQ equivalent added anyway by the more enlightened firearms licensing departments). Thus, people used to have rifles for "fox, deer, deranged squirrel, bluebottle" and shooting a bunny with said firearm would have been illegal. Edit: Oh - and it's worth saying that even though AOLQ is now considered best practice, any certificate which doesn't have it or which says something different still has to be followed unless you send the certificate in to have it updated - which may cost you the price of a variation. Edited June 22, 2015 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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