marsh man Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm pleased someone else feels the same as me. I've been reading this thread and constantly thinking 'is it just me?' I can't say steel isn't effective as I've shot loads of mallard with it, but I can't say I treat it any differently than lead either. I was thinking the same Scully , I have been using steel since it first came in force in 1990s and like a lot of people moaned a bit about it for not being as good as lead , one thing I found in those early days was putting a shot across a cripple on the water , I would drop it with one shot and it took me two more shots to kill it . Since them things have moved on and with improvements with the cartridges and us getting used to what they can do, I now shoot wildfowl without giving the shells a second thought , most of my shooting is inland flooded fields besides the coast and I find 32grms for duck and 36grms for geese are more than capable for dealing with anything in range , and that's where the main problems are , shooting in range . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelhall Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't get as many chances to go to the foreshore as I used to pre lead ban, but every Christmas I have a few days with a buddy in Suffolk. My results the last few years have been on the poor side, and I am beginning to wonder whether the steel shot has something to do with it and whether one needs to adjust their shooting technique a bit with steel? I still seem to kill pigeons and pheasants with lead much the same way as I always have, but the ducks, and particularly geese seem to get missed or wiggled way more than they used to. A couple of days ago I had a rare chance at geese. I hit the bird with the first barrel (1/4 choke gamebore 36g 3" size 1) and it wiggled and started losing altitude. Missed it with the second barrel, but watched it plane in a few hundred yards away. Probably took me 20 minutes to battle my way to where it fell and spent an hour looking with the dog for no result. When the bird crashed in it looked like it would be dead and it was a lung shot, but evidently not. It's a bit difficult to have much practise using 3" steel shot as it is a fairly hard recoiling load to use at pigeons or clays (if you were allowed to use them at a clay ground) any tips on what people have done to improve with steel, or is it just me shooting badly? Well you certainly ruffled some feathers there mate, more ways than 1. Just read it all from the start and am now totaly confused. Never used steel before as i do all my duck and goose [not WILDFOWLING] inland inScotland, but I got some steel for the forshore next week. Have,n,t time for lessons so will just pull through an hope for the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 +1, whatever shot you use. There are a hell of a lot of dedicated fowlerswho don't match those figures ,mostly because they do shoot in all conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) There are a hell of a lot of dedicated fowlerswho don't match those figures ,mostly because they do shoot in all conditions. Yes first thing I learnt fowling was its difficult to shoot well when your feet cant move , or you are on your knees etc . But then some on here do most of their fowling with carpet under their feet rather than mud ! Edited January 8, 2016 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 There are a hell of a lot of dedicated fowlerswho don't match those figures ,mostly because they do shoot in all conditions. and I thought you fenland lads got 3 with every shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 There are a hell of a lot of dedicated fowlerswho don't match those figures ,mostly because they do shoot in all conditions. and there are clubs that will ask you to justify your actions if you exceed 1-3. heck you cant do it every flight but if your not averaging this in a season or very near to it then honestly you need to review your actions. Mostly its range but we all have real good days and real bad ones, the problem is mostly repeating your mistake ( don't keep doing what don't work) One has to record shots fired on proper crown foreshore anyhow, why not do it anyhow for all your fowling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes first thing I learnt fowling was its difficult to shoot well when your feet cant move , or you are on your knees etc . But then some on here do most of their fowling with carpet under their feet rather than mud ! What can I say I haven't before? I am not that great a shot with a shotgun but I manage it as an average at seasons end. The real trick is learning what not to try for. if you slipping down the bank and got a bad mount on the bird - just don't pull the darn trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 and I thought you fenland lads got 3 with every shot We do ,its them others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 There are a hell of a lot of dedicated fowlerswho don't match those figures ,mostly because they do shoot in all conditions. I used to tell our members that if they don't knock down 1-in-4, then they ought to think about the ranges they are trying to shoot ducks at. I see people hitting 2-in-3 decoyed pigeons but only 1-in-5/6 flighting duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I used to tell our members that if they don't knock down 1-in-4, then they ought to think about the ranges they are trying to shoot ducks at. I see people hitting 2-in-3 decoyed pigeons but only 1-in-5/6 flighting duck. That's an excellent post you are a responsible wildfowlers and conservationist we need more people with your attitude and less gun slingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I used to tell our members that if they don't knock down 1-in-4, then they ought to think about the ranges they are trying to shoot ducks at. I see people hitting 2-in-3 decoyed pigeons but only 1-in-5/6 flighting duck. To be honest I myself was reticent to post 1-3 as a reasonable seasons average all taken into account I thought I might get called out as a poor shot. To be fair I am a little taken aback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 My average this year is better than 3-1 , I don't however really get the argument that if someone is shooting such and such average they need to shoot them closer. I know wildfowlers that love their sport but will never have a average like that in a month of sundays , it's not that they are shooting at out of range birds but the fact they are just not great shots , give them birds at 25 yards and they are still as likely to miss than kill , does that mean they should only shoot birds at 15 yards ? where do you draw the line ?. Yes people need talking to if they are persistently high shooting but for not hitting a certain average no , let them enjoy their sport, to some hitting one now and again is enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 ? Are you all sure of your averages??? Having shot with several members of this forum, I know MY averages and I'm not always 3-1.... And I don't know many who are! Lol... Unless they like bull#*^t Two reasons...... 1. If a bird is hit (by me or someonelse) I will empty the gun to try and kill that bird, falling head up/ broken wing or plaining out, so can easily fire off more carts! I very rarely lose a bird though! 2. Shooting from a cramped position , stuck in mud or facing wrong direction , high winds, poor light we miss! Not many pigeon escape the pattern when shooting in shirt sleeves off a stool......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Re-reading my post it seems I'm getting at Adrian( Fenboy) but I'm not and I'm sure him knowing me knows it too! I refer to 3-1 as several have quoted this figure, yet how many 3 shot salvo's do I see/ hear for not a lot on marsh sometimes?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 ? Are you all sure of your averages??? Having shot with several members of this forum, I know MY averages and I'm not always 3-1.... And I don't know many who are! Lol... Unless they like bull#*^t Two reasons...... 1. If a bird is hit (by me or someonelse) I will empty the gun to try and kill that bird, falling head up/ broken wing or plaining out, so can easily fire off more carts! I very rarely lose a bird though! 2. Shooting from a cramped position , stuck in mud or facing wrong direction , high winds, poor light we miss! Not many pigeon escape the pattern when shooting in shirt sleeves off a stool......... Point taken, however with some people all is not as it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 All is not as it seems?? If people had said about people rattling 3 shots off into skeins of geese for nothing I could agree that perhaps they need to brush up on shooting skill, marsh craft or range! But on a dark windy night duck flighting??.....you can waste cartridges! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Re-reading my post it seems I'm getting at Adrian( Fenboy) but I'm not and I'm sure him knowing me knows it too! I refer to 3-1 as several have quoted this figure, yet how many 3 shot salvo's do I see/ hear for not a lot on marsh sometimes?! I should hope not I am pretty anal with filling out my bag return each flight , so far it reads 135 shots for some ducks and geese I can understand you not being quite 3-1 Brad after seeing you miss that Mallard with 3 shots . Seriously though I agree duck shooting especially can be very difficult dependant on conditions , teal in the half light with the wind up their backsides are never going to be easy. I have shot very well this season but can certainly think of a couple of flights where my average has gone right out the window and I am sure there will be one or two more like that before the seasons end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) When some of talk about shooting steel is not quite the same as shooting with lead I think you need to think long and hard about the shot sizes you are using , the speed of your shell and what chokes you use , Rather than thinking about leading on the target. This season I have been keeping track of how my shots to kills ratio, shot sizes and ranges. So far 46% of the shots I am having in steel result in a duck\goose in the bag. I use no 3 shot for most duck shooting , but step up to no 2 for high mallard and BB or BBB for most goose shooting , but always use a full after choke for steel in the S\A when shooting geese. Though I am having problems with jamming with my Browning at the moment to have recently gone back to my old AYA 3 inch magnum and hevi shot or Tungsten for geese , though sticking with 34 gr loads of steel for duck. We also need to be aware that there is a world of difference between the effectivness of some steel cartridges. Eley, Gamebore, RC and Remingtons are very good unlike one common English brand I could mention. Edited January 8, 2016 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Oh so now things change now we shoot better than 1-3 it's no longer a case of roughly thoughts fowlers who shoot muddier banks and darker nights than others To be fair I did say some clubs will want a word at much worse an average through the season This stands worse than 1-4 has been mentioned by another as a word in the ear moment at another club Averages are averages they are not constants We have all missed with two or even three shots at a duck practicaly paddles down. Maybe it's a bad mount. Perhaps it's actually too close maybe your just human Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Missing birds and poor averages isnt a problem. Wounding things that are too high definitely is. I've totally changed my thoughts on those borderline range shots. Yes you can take them down quite cleanly but the risk of wounding is much higher. You should be looking at a skien coming at you and thinking "I've definitely got one/two/three" for the range to be appropriate in my opinion. Edited January 9, 2016 by wildfowler.250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Missing birds and poor averages isnt a problem. Wounding things that are too high definitely is. I've totally changed my thoughts on those borderline range shots. Yes you can take them down quite cleanly but the risk of wounding is much higher. You should be looking at a skien coming at you and thinking "I've definitely got one/two/three" for the range to be appropriate in my opinion. The issue the English clubs face is proving a member is a sky blaster, the shots fired proves it unless the person is a total newby to shotgun.. Only a few weeks ago I didn't make comment when a guy I know and trust well took a young guest out. I was calling over a lone pink that looked like it was about to fly straight over me after I turne it, three shots rang out from what I thought was a long way off from behind and I thought a nasty word! Anyhow excitement can soon over come a new guy especially on this marsh and reckoned the supervisor member would have put him straight about that so I kept my mouth shut back at the gate. He said the next day to me " did ya see my guy miss that 15 yarder with three shots ?" he was well disappointed to miss his first Goose ever.. Heck I thought it was three gunshots away if I had to say I admitted Some just have problems hitting anything of course and when that becomes obvious its time to see a coach it will save many wasted shells. there are few sports were a guy cannot have an off day or an off period its then time to see the man. Even Tiger woods has a coach and I bet his coach cant beat him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 The issue the English clubs face is proving a member is a sky blaster, the shots fired proves it unless the person is a total newby to shotgun..! The trouble is that shooting attracts people with large amounts of disposable income, to put it politely. A few years after the lead ban, there was an evening flight when 120 shots were fired for 2 birds. "They were in range because we could hear the shot hitting them" was the answer to criticism. We shoot about 300 duck in a poor season. 60 years ago, 5 chaps from 2 local families used to get that many each. That was before the motor car made the foreshore accessible to 'people with large amounts of disposable income'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Kent... What does your story prove??If the goose was coming towards you and his mate fired from behind you, sounds like he seriously needs to work on his range estimation! 15 yards??? Time for word!!!!! I agree about policing marshes curbing bad behaviour tho..... Edited January 9, 2016 by widgeon man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Kent... What does your story prove??If the goose was coming towards you and his mate fired from behind you, sounds like he seriously needs to work on his range estimation! 15 yards??? Time for word!!!!! I agree about policing marshes curbing bad behaviour tho..... And in Scotland you can't stop people shooting like a pleb because anyone can access the shore.. annoying.. Edited January 9, 2016 by wildfowler.250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Kent... What does your story prove??If the goose was coming towards you and his mate fired from behind you, sounds like he seriously needs to work on his range estimation! 15 yards??? Time for word!!!!! I agree about policing marshes curbing bad behaviour tho..... If it was 15 yards away from him then it was thier bird and I 100% trust him on that I get your point I can spit blood when people shoot at birds heading straight for another gun with knowledge ofvthe fact but at the range mentioned it was his way before it became mine Even if it was a case of excitement in a Newby I forgive it just the first symptoms of goose fever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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