Out of range shooting

[B25Modelman]

There is specialist ammunition for all forms of shooting, shotgun, rifle, airgun, bow, crossbow etc it still does not mean you are going to hit the target and even more so with a moving target.

[Savhmr]

 

I agree it LOOKS like that but in practice it won't behave like that, shot and wad part company very quickly after exiting the barrel, this is a known phenomenon. The reason I asked to see a pic was to see if the shot itself had some sort of semi glue type powdery substance intended to fuse the main mass for say the first 30-40 yards, this is of course utter madness in reality on so many different levels that I refuse to even point out the flaws of such design because I respect the company too much.

 

Secondly the shot keeping together for longer does not mean greater retained energy in any case, again the reasons for this are known and understood.

 

Old Farrier, my request for the pic was not confrontational and I do accept your assertion of 60 yards being a doable range for shooter accuracy, retained energy and pattern density. Much beyond these sort of ranges the latter two fade to the extent greater wounding becomes inevitable, i.e, it is in fact accuracy which is the least of our worries.

 

Just in case anyone decides to do a true 100 yard pattern test with these or any other shells, might I suggest they aim a good 10" high on purpose .

 

Not altogether true. The whole point about the double Gualandi wad is that the top most wad holds the shot together longer in flight making the initial pellet travel behave more like a solid slug, thus retaining more kinetic energy, before flipping over and, in the maker's own words, throwing a 40m pattern size at 100m. I would doubt the consistency of both when the wad flipped and of the resulting pattern so still wouldn't use them. A shotgun is not the weapon for long distance and hasn't been since the punt-gun was abandoned!

Edited January 17, 2016 by Savhmr

[Scully]

There are a lot of people offering their opinions on the effectiveness of these '100 metre' shells, but the only way to determine their effectiveness is to buy some and try them. People can speculate 'til the cows come home, but no one will ever know unless they try them.

[kent]

There are a lot of people offering their opinions on the effectiveness of these '100 metre' shells, but the only way to determine their effectiveness is to buy some and try them. People can speculate 'til the cows come home, but no one will ever know unless they try them.

this is quite true but it wont be me, if we start down this road were do we stop? for me a sportsman gives his quarry some law.

 

if they are too high then perhaps that's what makes it a game of chance? interesting ballistics as it is. Had some very exiting moments without firing a shot when my quarry was just out of my range its the anticipation

[Old farrier]

this is quite true but it wont be me, if we start down this road were do we stop? for me a sportsman gives his quarry some law.

 

if they are too high then perhaps that's what makes it a game of chance? interesting ballistics as it is. Had some very exiting moments without firing a shot when my quarry was just out of my range its the anticipation

So you never Strech your 22 rim fire out a few more yards and when you started you were happy with 60 yard rabbits then as you got more proficient 80 then 100

 

As I said the cartridges are well capable at 100 I'm happier at 60

The point I would like to make is just because you don't feel confident don't judge others that are what is out of comfort zone for one isn't nessesarily out of range

As you said 410 in the right hands has done some amazing things

All the best

Of

[Scully]

this is quite true but it wont be me, if we start down this road were do we stop? for me a sportsman gives his quarry some law.

 

if they are too high then perhaps that's what makes it a game of chance? interesting ballistics as it is. Had some very exiting moments without firing a shot when my quarry was just out of my range its the anticipation

I wont be trying them either as it simply doesn't interest me, but I wasn't necessarily suggesting anyone try them on live quarry.

[Scully]

So you never Strech your 22 rim fire out a few more yards and when you started you were happy with 60 yard rabbits then as you got more proficient 80 then 100

 

As I said the cartridges are well capable at 100 I'm happier at 60

The point I would like to make is just because you don't feel confident don't judge others that are what is out of comfort zone for one isn't nessesarily out of range

As you said 410 in the right hands has done some amazing things

All the best

Of

Exactly. I have owned my .22 for so long now and have used the same ammo for almost as long that I can judge (even through a lamp lit scope) when a rabbit needs holdover, and how much, and I can almost guarantee (almost but not always) that I will hit it in the head and kill it cleanly.

I'll get closer if I can, but if not and I judge it to be within my capabilities, I'll take the shot. I also know when it's not doable. It's something most of us on here do on a daily basis, whether with a rifle or shotgun.

[fenboy]

this is quite true but it wont be me, if we start down this road were do we stop? for me a sportsman gives his quarry some law.

 

if they are too high then perhaps that's what makes it a game of chance? interesting ballistics as it is. Had some very exiting moments without firing a shot when my quarry was just out of my range its the anticipation

If using that particular cartridge you could choose to leave them as too high at 120m

[kent]

So you never Strech your 22 rim fire out a few more yards and when you started you were happy with 60 yard rabbits then as you got more proficient 80 then 100

 

As I said the cartridges are well capable at 100 I'm happier at 60

The point I would like to make is just because you don't feel confident don't judge others that are what is out of comfort zone for one isn't nessesarily out of range

As you said 410 in the right hands has done some amazing things

All the best

Of

you have a point I don't really get why but the chain of thought most use is different between shotgun and rifle. Range with a rifle during deer stalking is always the shortest you can get it (that is the sport) on vermin or management of deer its just a case of can you kill it with the one shot. Running shots are not well thought of in the UK with rifle but its not good to shoot a pheasant on the grass. I admit a shoot some long shots during daylight and also shoot running with rifle. Thing is and i aint bragging here there is nobody in the uk that has a shot to clean kill ratio with a shotgun that can hold a light to a half way decent rifleman. If that all sounds half baked sure but its just the way it is. Can you imagine missing three foxes in a row or worse (though again not sure why) three deer with a rifle?

 

Heck I don't know I only speak for myself if people think the sport in pheasants is taking them as really high then who am I to grumble to me those birds offer little sport however they find their way into the bag. Lets face it i spend half my time trying to not run over the blooming things and you couldn't stand in a field during broad daylight with a dozen other guys likewise and have many crows fly over you offering a shot

 

You know what i might try a few of those shells on a crow flight and see how well they kill, suddenly that seems ok - weird init?

[Hamster]

So you never Strech your 22 rim fire out a few more yards and when you started you were happy with 60 yard rabbits then as you got more proficient 80 then 100

 

As I said the cartridges are well capable at 100 I'm happier at 60

The point I would like to make is just because you don't feel confident don't judge others that are what is out of comfort zone for one isn't nessesarily out of range

As you said 410 in the right hands has done some amazing things

All the best

Of

 

Just out of interest if these shells are said to print a 40 yard pattern at 100 yards would that not mean that at a mere 60 yards they would be pretty monumentally tight still ? So tight as to have next to no margin of error and pretty much smash birds if you were to connect. I'm going to talk to Scott at Greenfields to see if he can get hold of a few boxes, what's to stop these being loaded with 6.5's to make mince meat out of unfeasible Fitasc birds.

[Old farrier]

 

Just out of interest if these shells are said to print a 40 yard pattern at 100 yards would that not mean that at a mere 60 yards they would be pretty monumentally tight still ? So tight as to have next to no margin of error and pretty much smash birds if you were to connect. I'm going to talk to Scott at Greenfields to see if he can get hold of a few boxes, what's to stop these being loaded with 6.5's to make mince meat out of unfeasible Fitasc birds.

I did say there are two types one is a 60 meter cartridge the other is 100 meter cartridge

 

 

Best plan buy a few and try them

 

There's proberably nothing to stop you loading them with anything you like in fact I may have helped you develop the perfect fitas shell although it maybe over weight for the rules

Have a good time experimenting

All the best

Of

[Bazooka Joe]

You know what i might try a few of those shells on a crow flight and see how well they kill, suddenly that seems ok - weird init?

 

 

Just need the foreshore cowboys now to clock this thread, if they do a 100yds that won't be good enough, it'll have to be stretched to 150yds+...

[Old farrier]

 

Just need the foreshore cowboys now to clock this thread, if they do a 100yds that won't be good enough, it'll have to be stretched to 150yds+...

There lead so not a Wildfowler cartridge

[Bazooka Joe]

There lead so not a Wildfowler cartridge

 

 

 

I know, it was sia d tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon...

[Old farrier]

 

 

I know, it was sia d tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon...

Proberably wouldn't stop some though 😗😟

[Bazooka Joe]

Proberably wouldn't stop some though

 

 

That I wouldn't doubt...

[GingerCat]

If I can get some locally I'm tempted to pattern them and see. Interested in how the wad works.

[Guest cookoff013]

Well, there are long range carts.

1.5 oz or more. Big shotsizes too.

 

These 100m shells are a bodge job. It's 2 gualandi wads squashed together.

One wad is upside down. 35g isn't that big either.

 

50grams is quite a load.

[rjimmer]

You would get a similar performance by scoring round the cartridge just above the powder, sending half the cartridge case out through the barrel with the shot. We had an Arab chap shooting who reckoned it worked great and would smash a concrete paving slab.

[Savhmr]

As others have said, why use a shotgun at extended ranges when i) you cannot be as sure of a humane or clean kill, or at least be less sure than when shooting more normally accepted ranges with conventional loads, ii) the pattern will be dubious wrt consistency (not speculation at all given the design...it seems pretty obvious!...how could it be otherwise to anyone with more than a basic smattering of ballistics knowledge?) and iii) how good is anyone at judging 100 yds from 80 or 130 on a fast flying pigeon? (be honest) I'm guessing that firstly, you'd miss more than you'd hit and secondly, why bother when the more sporting and humane approach surely has to be limiting ranges to at least half that? I will confess to regularly taking pigeon at 50 yds and sometimes a little more when hide shooting (nr 6 32g shot) with practice but that's with cartridges that I know pattern consistently and when I'm on form but at 100 yds with all the variables involved, I don't consider it humane or sporting. It would be more humane and sporting to use a rimfire and shoot the things on the deck at 100 yds!

[Bewsher500]

 

I again will reiterate I don't disbelieve that hitting and downing game at 80 yards is possible with big shot and big weight loads, what I maintain is that by definition and due to the nature of shotguns, doing this routinely will lead to too many pricked birds, hence my question: what exactly is the point of becoming a 90 yard specialist ? It is provably inefficient and arguably immoral.

 

bet the number of pricked birds inside 50 yds is a lot higher (like 10 times as high for example) than the number of pricked birds beyond it

given the speed and range you are far more likely to simply miss a 70-100yd pheasant than you are to ***** it

 

I would say at least half of the "missed" birds in the 30-50yd range on the last shoot i was on would have copped a pellet or two, especially those going away

[Hamster]

I'd take that bet.

[Hamster]

Just to clarify the issue isn't just the odd peppering, it's the fact that at 90 yards the pellets are undeniably less lethal and so more prone to cause prolonged suffering.