rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Right gents, need some clarification please. I believe we have some knowledgeable folk on here, maybe even involved in the legal side of this. My son passed his test sometime in 2006, lets say 2007 just to be sure, and wants to tow a trailer. He hasn't passed a separate trailer test. We know any trailer over 750kg has to be braked so ok on that. What weight can he tow behind 2.1 tons of Land Rover Discovery ? Anyone know the guaranteed correct answer ? (no guesses on this one please) Edit to say weight Disco will tow doesn't matter, just the weight he's allowed to tow. Entitled to drive B, B1, F, K, P. whatever they are Edited January 31, 2016 by rodp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Pretty sure the restriction on him towing will be 750kg braked or unbraked because of his date of passing test. The maximum towing weight of your LR will be in its technical info somewhere ( back of the handbook) Edited January 31, 2016 by TaxiDriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Not concerned with disco towing weight, I know that one. Sure they changed the law though and the maximum weight has been increased now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) The discovery can tow 3.5 tonnes braked weight. Check the dvla website for details of when the changes came into affect. He could do the test for towing, it's not difficult I've been told. Lots of sporting youngsters are doing it to tow their track cars off road bikes etc. Link https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow Edited January 31, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 He can't tow anything without a separate towing test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Trailer needs to plated so MAM is under 3500kg for combination ( disco MAM + trailer MAM) simples or a <750kg MAM trailer on vehicle plated at upto 3500kg 4250kg MAM He can't tow anything without a separate towing test. Rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Right, entitled to drive B, B1, F, K, P. whatever they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essex Keeper Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Cat B car licence held on or after 1 January 1997 Drivers who passed a Cat B car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to Cat B+E and all larger vehicles. Since 1 January 1997 a new driver may drive a vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM with a 750kg MAM trailer (allowing a combined weight up to 4,250kg MAM) OR a vehicle combination of up to 3,500kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. For example: A towing vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,250kg and a MAM of 2,000kg coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1,250kg could be driven by the holder of a Cat B car entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3,500kg and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. Whereas: The same towing vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,250kg and a MAM of 2,000kg when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1,500kg would fall within Cat B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3,500kg MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. The size of the trailer you can tow is dependent on the MAM, not the actual weight when loaded. You cannot tow a heavier trailer even if it is not fully loaded. Do I need to take a trailer towing test? If you passed your Cat B car test before 1 January 1997 you are generally allowed to drive a Cat B vehicle and trailer up to a maximum weight of 8,250kg. This is the combined weight of the loaded towing vehicle and the loaded trailer. If you passed your car test on, or after 1 January 1997 you may tow a trailer up to 750kg behind a Cat B vehicle. If the trailer is more than 750kg then you have to look very carefully at the weights of the towing vehicle and the trailer being towed. There is no Cat B+E theory test. You cannot tow trailers on a provisional licence. The standard recommendation for putting together a safe combination is; the loaded trailer should not weigh more than the vehicle manufacturer�s recommended towing weight or 85% of the vehicle�s kerb weight, whichever is less. The combined weight of the loaded vehicle and the loaded trailer must not exceed the manufacturer�s stated Gross Train Weight (GTW). The GTW is the maximum weight a vehicle can move on the road and is set by the vehicle�s manufacturer. For more information Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) factsheet INF 30 �Towing Trailers in Great Britain� will give you all the information you will need. Alternatively more information can be found on the DVLA website. Manufacturers details Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle�s handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1,000kg would be well within the new Cat B threshold. Note An exemption exists that allows a full Cat B car licence holder to drive a vehicle in a class included in Cat B+E where: � The trailer consists of a vehicle which is damaged or defective and is likely to represent a road safety hazard or obstruction to other road users, i.e. towing a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. � The combination is driven only so far as is reasonably necessary in the circumstances to remove the hazard or obstruction, and receives no consideration or reward for driving the combination. Note � EC regulations prevent drivers aged less than 21 years to driving vehicles or combinations which weigh more than 7,500kg MAM. In general, an additional driving test is required for each category or subcategory of entitlement. But there are certain exemptions to this where drivers have already passed one test that involves trailer entitlement for a larger or equivalent sized vehicle. This means taking a test for subcategory C1+E upgrades Cat B car entitlement to Cat B+E. Drivers are not allowed to take a trailer test for a category of licence until they have first passed a test and obtained a full licence in the category in the corresponding towing vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 He can't tow anything without a separate towing test. Yes he can, used to be 750kg but it's altered now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Looking at the gov website he can only tow upto 750kg trailer so long as the combined weight of trailer and vehicle do not exceed 3.5 ton. That's my understanding. Also be careful of tow bar nose weight. Edited January 31, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Cat B car licence held on or after 1 January 1997 Drivers who passed a Cat B car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to Cat B+E and all larger vehicles. Since 1 January 1997 a new driver may drive a vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM with a 750kg MAM trailer (allowing a combined weight up to 4,250kg MAM) OR a vehicle combination of up to 3,500kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. For example: A towing vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,250kg and a MAM of 2,000kg coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1,250kg could be driven by the holder of a Cat B car entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3,500kg and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. Whereas: The same towing vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,250kg and a MAM of 2,000kg when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1,500kg would fall within Cat B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3,500kg MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. The size of the trailer you can tow is dependent on the MAM, not the actual weight when loaded. You cannot tow a heavier trailer even if it is not fully loaded. Do I need to take a trailer towing test? If you passed your Cat B car test before 1 January 1997 you are generally allowed to drive a Cat B vehicle and trailer up to a maximum weight of 8,250kg. This is the combined weight of the loaded towing vehicle and the loaded trailer. If you passed your car test on, or after 1 January 1997 you may tow a trailer up to 750kg behind a Cat B vehicle. If the trailer is more than 750kg then you have to look very carefully at the weights of the towing vehicle and the trailer being towed. There is no Cat B+E theory test. You cannot tow trailers on a provisional licence. The standard recommendation for putting together a safe combination is; the loaded trailer should not weigh more than the vehicle manufacturer�s recommended towing weight or 85% of the vehicle�s kerb weight, whichever is less. The combined weight of the loaded vehicle and the loaded trailer must not exceed the manufacturer�s stated Gross Train Weight (GTW). The GTW is the maximum weight a vehicle can move on the road and is set by the vehicle�s manufacturer. For more information Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) factsheet INF 30 �Towing Trailers in Great Britain� will give you all the information you will need. Alternatively more information can be found on the DVLA website. Manufacturers details Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle�s handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1,000kg would be well within the new Cat B threshold. Note An exemption exists that allows a full Cat B car licence holder to drive a vehicle in a class included in Cat B+E where: � The trailer consists of a vehicle which is damaged or defective and is likely to represent a road safety hazard or obstruction to other road users, i.e. towing a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. � The combination is driven only so far as is reasonably necessary in the circumstances to remove the hazard or obstruction, and receives no consideration or reward for driving the combination. Note � EC regulations prevent drivers aged less than 21 years to driving vehicles or combinations which weigh more than 7,500kg MAM. In general, an additional driving test is required for each category or subcategory of entitlement. But there are certain exemptions to this where drivers have already passed one test that involves trailer entitlement for a larger or equivalent sized vehicle. This means taking a test for subcategory C1+E upgrades Cat B car entitlement to Cat B+E. Drivers are not allowed to take a trailer test for a category of licence until they have first passed a test and obtained a full licence in the category in the corresponding towing vehicle. So, I assumed he can tow a trailer of 1.4 tons behind 2.1 tons of Disco (max towing weight 3.5 tons) . Is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Trailer needs to plated so MAM is under 3500kg for combination ( disco MAM + trailer MAM) simples or a <750kg MAM trailer on vehicle plated at upto 3500kg 4250kg MAM Rubbish Ah, think I get it now. So it's not the kerb weight of disco + trailer, it's the MAM of disco + trailer, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Disco MAM 2100kg? Also plated weight is important not laden........ Ah, think I get it now. So it's not the kerb weight of disco + trailer, it's the MAM of disco + trailer, yes? Yes (my laymans understanding) MAM is maximum Auhtorised MAss of course the legal bits and manufacturer bits don't always tie up. Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) you get the maximum authorised mass of the disco and then the maximum your trailer is plated to and add them together must be under 3.5t Edited January 31, 2016 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Iam sure he can only tow 750kg until he passes a towing test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Iam sure he can only tow 750kg until he passes a towing test.That's rubbish.........please reference the info. It's all a bout MAM he can tow a 1700kg trailer ( plated MAM) with a car of plated MAM 1799kg if you can find a car of such specs....... Stupid really as much safer with a bigger car but I don't make the rules..... Also makers specs must be adhered to both trailer and car ( which near the limit can get tricky with nose weights axle loads etc) Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Cars Category B You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg). You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer isnt more than 3,500kg. You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old. Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles. https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories Seems there is some info around of a 3rd category for people who passed after 2013 If you passed your driving licence after January 19, 2013, the maximum weight you will be able to tow with a category B licence is 750kg, provided the total weight of the car and what you want to tow does not exceed 3,500kg. This isn't detailed on .gov so not sure if it is correct.... Chuffing complex is the simple answer and don't expect plod to know either........ Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 So, I assumed he can tow a trailer of 1.4 tons behind 2.1 tons of Disco (max towing weight 3.5 tons) . Is this correct? This appears to be correct : From : https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow Licences held from 1 January 1997If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can: drive a vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) This appears to be correct : From : https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow Licences held from 1 January 1997 If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can: drive a vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test. Except disco MAM is way over 2100kg more like 3000kg........... In these circumstances people with a post 97 B licence can tow a heavier trailer win a soft roader like a RAV4 (1800kg MAM) 1500kg trailer (max braked trailer according to manufacturer specs) MAM or Kuga (2100kg MAM) with a 1400kg MAM trailer ( less than max (2000kg) trailer MAM according to specs) than with a disco (2750kg MAM ish depending on Year and spec) leaving only 750kg for trailer with in the confines of the 3500kg MAMso can tow more weight with lighter car! Work that one out! Absurdly if driving a 3500kg MAM like a sprinter van can still tow a 750kg trailer as 4250kg MAM applies ( is everyone thoroughly bored yet) Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 That's rubbish.........please reference the info. It's all a bout MAM he can tow a 1700kg trailer ( plated MAM) with a car of plated MAM 1799kg if you can find a car of such specs....... Stupid really as much safer with a bigger car but I don't make the rules..... Also makers specs must be adhered to both trailer and car ( which near the limit can get tricky with nose weights axle loads etc) I must show this to our transport manager at work because he has banned every driver with post 97 licenses from towing. It will certainly make my life easier. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Might be an insurance question, does he hold a CPC? Might be different for o licencend operators,I don't know but .gov is very clear, it is for a B category the total combination MAM can be up to 3500kg (or 3500kg + 750kg) but must be split 1751kg MAM towing vehicle minimum ( car heavier than trailer and it seems car kerb weight greater than trailer.......) it is all on plated weights not actual, so a 2 ton plated trailer is a no go for anyone on a B category empty or not, and must all be within manufacturers limits..... Best synopsis I found http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/driving_licences.aspx But this has raised another issues which may throw my previous examples out of whack.... Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) OK so best I have found for towing for the post 97 brigade, I will try and make this simple as I see it: Honda CR-V 2wd http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/honda/cr-v-estate_6/67817/technical-data/ Unladen weight 1460kg, MAM 1960kg max trailer MAM would be 1459kg because trailer MAM cannot exceed vehicle unladen weight and vehicle MAM + trailer MAM in this case 1960 + 1459 = 3419kg must not exceed 3500kg. Trailer must not exceed manufacturer max towing weight in this case 1700kg Just need a trailer plated at 1459kg ( down plate a 1500kg) Unladen 1500kg and MAM 2000kg, towing Wight 1500+ is best practical balance but this is close enough Edited January 31, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I must show this to our transport manager at work because he has banned every driver with post 97 licenses from towing. It will certainly make my life easier. Thanks. At work is different as you will need a tachometer fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) At work is different as you will need a tachometer fittedNot under 3500kg GTW/MAM though? Edited February 1, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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