mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Hello reloading peeps. With a mind to start load developing for the 17 Hornet soon I have managed to acquire 3lbs of AA1680 - allegedly the best powder for the little cartridge. Well, actually it's Lovex D063, but as they are one and the same, I'll be using the AA1680 load data I have. I just wanted to run this by anyone who has either; a) used AA1680 b) has a copy of Quickload (doesn't work on a Mac) c) shoots the 17 Hornet and has developed their own loads. Load data for the 17 hornet is thin on the ground. But I have Western powders data and I have Hornady data. As I'll only be developing for 20gn V-Max for the moment I'll just keep the data posted to that. Hornady states: 20gr VMAX Start 10.3gn - Max 12.4gn Western states: 20gn VMAX Start 10.1gn - Max 11.2gn I usually find Hornady's loads a little hot, and my experience in my other rifle is that starting just under the minimum load is usually a good move. One powder in particular in my 243 couldn't even reach starting load with the Hornady data before showing signs of pressure. My plan is thus, bearing in mind the 17HH is a teeny case. Start 10gn (0.1gn under minimum) Steps of 0.2gn thereafter up to Max 12.4gn Which gives 13 steps at: 10.0 - 10.2 - 10.4 - 10.6 - 10.8 - 11 - 11.2 - 11.4 - 11.6 - 11.8 - 12 - 12.2 - 12.4 Sound about right to you folks? Anyone care to run AA1680 (or Lovex D063) through QL for me, pretty please? Edited March 12, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I can't answer for the 17, just its big brother. If they're in any way similar, don't just look for pressure, but accuracy as well. Working up the 22 (with L'ilgun anyway) pressure is not a problem but at the top end - ish, any gain in velocity is marginal and the loss of accuracy is the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hodgdon Lil'Gun is excellent powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Whilst I appreciate the recommendation of Hodgdon Lil'Gun it doesn't get rave reviews in 17HH, in fact, quite the opposite. So, in attempt to keep this thread on track, feedback only only AA1680 (Lovex D063) or the steps in my load development choice please. With a smily face so as not to offend anyone Wymberley - yes, accuracy, not speed is the key. Something I learnt with the 243. It's load is at the low end of speed but reliably accurate. That'll do for me every time. However, the AA1680 gets good scores from people on both fronts. I've read a lot of 17HH users (mostly in the States) using the 1680 and getting both good speeds and accuracy. Do you think my steps sensibly spaced? Anyone got any other load data to offer with the 1680. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Ah, and the other question. Can I do load development with a fire-forming load. Or should I simply start at the low end of the scale, fire-form all my brass (used for short range rabbit shooting) and then do the load development? I hear of plenty of people using the fire forming loads to hunt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 fireform your cases first load a few test batch's and see how accuracy is then you have a fireform load to use on bunnies crows etc......then work up a load for formed cases. load for accuracy don't get het up on speed. reloader 7 is a very good powder to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Id be very carefull going all the way to hornady max Theres a few threads on saubier about there data for the 17 hornet being too hot! Noticed this myself although not with 1680,still waiting for mine to arrive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Yes, this is my experience too. I think, to fireform, use the lower end of both, I can zero at this, fire form 200, then as suggested, do the actual load development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I can't get registered on saubier.com for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Not a member myself so cant help unfortunatly! Just found the thread through google but cant get it again! Il post a link if i find it! Would apreciate updates as you progress with load development hoping my 1680 will arrive within a week or two! Ive been using H110 which works ok just a very low case fill and slightly lower velocity! Cheers ET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Westlander is where I got mine, very good price with delivery, Mike is the importer for Lovex in the UK, nice to know I can get it easily in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Yes thats were mine is coming from too! Delivery is extortonate across the sea but, so haveing someone pick it up wen hes over! Its a bit more muckin about but a few tubs of powder will last a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Thinking about it, I might go in 0.1gn increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I use hogden 4189 ll.2 grains with 20 grain vmax.i could not get max powder in 11.8 grains over fill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I use hogden 4189 ll.2 grains with 20 grain vmax.i could not get max powder in 11.8 grains over fill Hi mate. I presume your using H4198 lol. I'm using 11.4 grains, the case is near full without a shake. No signs of any issues. The pressure is low when you compare other powders in the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 0.2 is an okay increment in the hornet. You might be able to go to 0.3 in the lower end, but you do have to watch. I haven't shot 1680 (also shoot 4198 at a max load) but from my time on saubier it seems like a good powder, if a little dirty. Data I have from the guys there suggest that in the ackley hornet with the Berger 20 grain the max load would top over 13 grains. However, the ackley has a bit more capacity than the hornady hornet. In other powders the hornady is around 8-10% lighter at max so 10% under 13.3 is 12 grains and about where you are. You will probably hit the max load if you go to 12.4 but you might not. Keep an eye on pressure and have a collet bullet puller on standby. I might use a larger gap at the start of the range and go to 0.1 at the top if you want to work up, but if you use 0.2 to start you will see if your gun likes fast loads of slower ones. Then you can tweak. I don't work up with fireform loads. I fireform to get the scope in and if they are 1" or so to start go shoot things with it. Then use the full cartridges to tighten the load. You can use your preferred load to fireform later, but I don't trust the case change when looking for an accuracy load. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Okay, thanks for that. So, in summary: Use a load at the lowest end of the scale to fire form. So, using WP data that would be 10.1gn. Zero in with the fire form loads but don't expect great groups. Once zeroed, use the remaining for hunting until there is a good batch of fire formed brass. Once fire formed I can start load development, starting with increments of 0.2gn at the lower end and as I get toward the upper end (half way) go in 0.1gn steps. I've heard 1680 is a bit grubby, but I'm one of those that cleans the rifle (be it rimfire or centrefire) after each use, even if I just fire one shot. Never understood leaving burnt powder residue in a rifle bore, it attracts moisture and just accelerates pitting and erosion of the surface. Oddly, folk seem to clean their shotguns after every use but are happy to leave their rifles for months without cleaning them? Just my take on it, but I'd rather put my rifles away clean. Edited March 12, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimmie Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 From what I've read (got a slot for .17 hornet) viht N120 seems to be the preferred powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) N120 was a good alternative, cleaner burning and available, but didn't give quite the same velocities as AA1680 from what I can tell. I love Viht, it's the go to for my 243 in various bullet weights, and in my mates 222, which when he brings all the components round, I load for him. However, the 1680 is on its way, and until I work my way through the 1.5kg of it, that's what I'm sticking with. Knowing me, I'll likely repeat the whole process with N120 in time, it's always good to have a back up. The issue with N120 was mainly load data if I wanted to use 25gn bullets, there was only data for 20gn. As I'm starting out I wanted one powder, with known data, that covered both bullet weights. Edited March 13, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimmie Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 If you ever need it 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 N120 was a good alternative, cleaner burning and available, but didn't give quite the same velocities as AA1680 from what I can tell. I love Viht, it's the go to for my 243 in various bullet weights, and in my mates 222, which when he brings all the components round, I load for him. However, the 1680 is on its way, and until I work my way through the 1.5kg of it, that's what I'm sticking with. Knowing me, I'll likely repeat the whole process with N120 in time, it's always good to have a back up. The issue with N120 was mainly load data if I wanted to use 25gn bullets, there was only data for 20gn. As I'm starting out I wanted one powder, with known data, that covered both bullet weights. H4198 would have been that powder, though supply is spotty some times. I use 25's for fireforming and 20's for shooting. If you have easy access to the range you are shooting on, then I would just do a ladder, maybe double ladder, for the first trip. A min load might not be enough to blow out the cases fully (though it is probably okay). I would only load 20 or so on a double ladder and see what is working for fireforming, max pressure, and relative accuracy. Then for the next set of rounds you hone in. If the range is a drive away though, I appreciate that the time and effort to just try out the firsts set might more more pain than it is worth. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Thanks Rimmie, that does change things a little. I may be able to halt the order of AA1680 before its posted Monday and switch to N120. Either way, it's useful info to have and my hornady manual didn't list it in 25gn. Casts-by: yes the range is a good drive away (nearest in Herts is the one up in Cambridge), so this would have to be done in a field someplace. Interesting though, as a few report that with 1680 min load fireforms just fine. I guess I'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Next question is which primer? I have on the list of possibles: RWS 4033 CCI BR4 (expensive though!) CCI 450 Federal 405 Winchester 6 1/2 Any suggestions? BR4 are used a lot, but are twice the price of CCI 450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Are the magnum primers necessery? Ijust use the 400's but will experiment when the 1680 arrives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hmm, let me find the article that recommended their use. Give me a moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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