First Application - What to apply for?

[ElvisThePelvis]

I Have an existing SGC and am in the process of putting in for my FAC, which will probably take 18 months so plenty of time to save up the cash. I have a couple of permissions all of which have cleared ground (not sure what for exactly but they shoot Vermin, Fox and Deer) but am wary of applying for too much at this stage.

 

My current intention is to request:

 

Sect 1 Shotgun for winged vermin and practical shotgun (although not a member of a club so may leave practical off)

 

.17HMR for Rabbits and long range Corvids

 

.22 Rimfire and appropriate sound moderator (I can decide which .22 RF when the licence turns up i believe) for Rabbits

 

Three quick questions:

 

Am I am asking for too much with the potential cross over on the rifle?

 

Once granted do i have to buy all of the above within a certain time frame?

 

Should be putting in for CF deer rifle at the same time or waiting?

 

Thanks

[Jbob]

I applied for both .17 HMR and .22RF last year and got that granted. Vermin control and target shooting being my reasons for wanting them.

 

Don't forget to apply for mods for both calibers

 

I don't think there is a time scale for purchase. Hope not cos I still have a slot left to fill and wont be filling it for a while. Putting in for a CF for deer wont hurt but I would think they will require you to be mentored.

[ElvisThePelvis]

I see, i don't have anyone that could Mentor me, may as well leave that off and rely on the Butcher for venison..

 

Is out worth putting in for a moderator on HMR?

[Jbob]

Defiantly apply for mods in both .22 and .17hmr so you have them on your ticket

[deershooter]

Most forces want you to have experance with a rim fire before granting a full bore and as you have no stalking experance or land it's unlikely you would get a centerfire fulbore caliber on initial application

[TONY R]

Go for a 22 rf over your land , ignore the 17hmr dependent on the force it may come back and haunt you, when you want a centerfire vermin gun.

Go straight in for a 17 remington or .222 explaining you are interested in ballistics and want to reload (cant do that with an HMR), mention the light frangible bullet aspect and do your research learn what you can about these rounds charecteristics history perforemance, its not about *********** them its about showing you are interested comited and have done your research and not just plucked some rounds of some random forum and gone on that as a say so. Show you have thought about it and put it in writing.

Get a deer round if you genuinely are intending to use it, 270 308 7mm 08 7x57 6.5x55 all make good deer rounds, book a day with a comercial stalker go have a try if you like it book another day well in advance, then you have a reason to have a deer rifle.

They will decide what you end up with, go in prepared with good grounds for each gun and why you want it then you will get what you want.

[ElvisThePelvis]

Most forces want you to have experance with a rim fire before granting a full bore and as you have no stalking experance or land it's unlikely you would get a centerfire fulbore caliber on initial application

 

 

Excellent, thanks i did wonder about that (although the land has Deer on) I will leave to off

[Luckyshot]

Apply for what you need whether it be 22, 17 and 243 (or similar).

[lloydi73]

 

I applied for 17HMR and .243 from the start and got both....It was touch and go on the .243 but I had legit reason being deer shooting. I did have to be mentored for 3 months but like said above, if you have the requirements and land then apply for the calibre. I regret not applying for .22 as well, but I have just put in my variation for one so am having to wait. so yes, apply for both 17 and .22

[ElvisThePelvis]

 

 

I applied for 17HMR and .243 from the start and got both....It was touch and go on the .243 but I had legit reason being deer shooting. I did have to be mentored for 3 months but like said above, if you have the requirements and land then apply for the calibre. I regret not applying for .22 as well, but I have just put in my variation for one so am having to wait. so yes, apply for both 17 and .22

 

 

Thank you, i have a need for 22 LR for subs and .17 her for longer range and the lower chance of ricochet. I will apply for those straight off and take my time thinking about Deer, I'm not convinced i would use it that often and i have no interest in shooting Foxes, I imagine that they taste terrible. I was thinking of leaving the .22 as RF and deciding later but i guess that not an option.

Go for a 22 rf over your land , ignore the 17hmr dependent on the force it may come back and haunt you, when you want a centerfire vermin gun.

Go straight in for a 17 remington or .222 explaining you are interested in ballistics and want to reload (cant do that with an HMR), mention the light frangible bullet aspect and do your research learn what you can about these rounds charecteristics history perforemance, its not about bull******* them its about showing you are interested comited and have done your research and not just plucked some rounds of some random forum and gone on that as a say so. Show you have thought about it and put it in writing.

Get a deer round if you genuinely are intending to use it, 270 308 7mm 08 7x57 6.5x55 all make good deer rounds, book a day with a comercial stalker go have a try if you like it book another day well in advance, then you have a reason to have a deer rifle.

They will decide what you end up with, go in prepared with good grounds for each gun and why you want it then you will get what you want.

Excellent, thank you. Out of interest why would an HMR come back to haunt me? I like the flatter shooting nature and lower propensity to ricochet, i would imagine that this would be used the most.

[TONY R]

 

Thank you, i have a need for 22 LR for subs and .17 her for longer range and the lower chance of ricochet. I will apply for those straight off and take my time thinking about Deer, I'm not convinced i would use it that often and i have no interest in shooting Foxes, I imagine that they taste terrible. I was thinking of leaving the .22 as RF and deciding later but i guess that not an option.

Excellent, thank you. Out of interest why would an HMR come back to haunt me? I like the flatter shooting nature and lower propensity to ricochet, i would imagine that this would be used the most.

If you go for this round some forces / staff have a reasonable excuse to leave you stuck with it for a varmint round, getting centrefire varmint round could take a lot more convincing on your part to show you have a need/ reason for such a gun if you allready have a 17HMR..

If you have looked at the 17HMR and its all youy ever dreamed of fine put it down, but i gave my oppinion on what you should do and i would get a centrefire ignore the HMR alltogrether. Go .222 its in my experience more accurate than the ubiquitous .223 and its going to have reasoable performance most forces will accept as a first centerfire varmint round, the .223 and .22250 could well be granted, but with the .222 i believe you are showing a responsible attitude as a first time applicant and inexperienced new comer to this area of sport.

The student of ballistics approach is not to be ignored the .222 is a prime candidate as a first time varminter and will respond well to reloads as it is an uncanily accurate round as it comes, If you present your case for a .222 with some good insight into why you want it, i think it will just be granted.

Edited March 17, 2016 by TONY R

[robbiep]

If you go for this round some forces / staff have a reasonable excuse to leave you stuck with it for a varmint round, getting centrefire varmint round could take a lot more convincing on your part to show you have a need/ reason for such a gun if you allready have a 17HMR..

If you have looked at the 17HMR and its all youy ever dreamed of fine put it down, but i gave my oppinion on what you should do and i would get a centrefire ignore the HMR alltogrether. Go .222 its in my experience more accurate than the ubiquitous .223 and its going to have reasoable performance most forces will accept as a first centerfire varmint round, the .223 and .22250 could well be granted, but with the .222 i believe you are showing a responsible attitude as a first time applicant and inexperienced new comer to this area of sport.

The student of ballistics approach is not to be ignored the .222 is a prime candidate as a first time varminter and will respond well to reloads as it is an uncanily accurate round as it comes, If you present your case for a .222 with some good insight into why you want it, i think it will just be granted.

 

Just to say : most FEOs wouldn't know the difference between 222, 223, 22-250, or any of the other various cartridge types in the 22CF range. So don't go overthinking it.

 

I personally have a 22LR and a 223Rem - both of them are conditioned for target and pest control. I've got a variation application in now for a 308. I do quite a bit of target shooting, so a 223 makes a lot of sense for me, as it's cheap to buy ammunition for, and virtually every RFD carries ammunition for it on the shelf. Same for the 308, when it eventually comes through.

 

People will go on and on about why a 22-250 is better than a 223, or whether the 222 is better than either of them, or maybe you should go for a 223Ackley, or even going for a 220Swift ... as you can see, it can get ridiculous !

 

But at the end of the day, 99% of misses are down to the numpty on the trigger.

[Savhmr]

If you go for this round some forces / staff have a reasonable excuse to leave you stuck with it for a varmint round, getting centrefire varmint round could take a lot more convincing on your part to show you have a need/ reason for such a gun if you allready have a 17HMR..

If you have looked at the 17HMR and its all youy ever dreamed of fine put it down, but i gave my oppinion on what you should do and i would get a centrefire ignore the HMR alltogrether. Go .222 its in my experience more accurate than the ubiquitous .223 and its going to have reasoable performance most forces will accept as a first centerfire varmint round, the .223 and .22250 could well be granted, but with the .222 i believe you are showing a responsible attitude as a first time applicant and inexperienced new comer to this area of sport.

The student of ballistics approach is not to be ignored the .222 is a prime candidate as a first time varminter and will respond well to reloads as it is an uncanily accurate round as it comes, If you present your case for a .222 with some good insight into why you want it, i think it will just be granted.

 

Not becessarily. Providing you have good reason, there's no reason to refuse anything you apply for. The restriction some forces may apply is if there's no history of your experience for some of the more powerful calibres because their responsibility towards the wider public may cause them to get fidgety of say you applied for a .308 on your first FAC application. Whilst I do know of two people who did just that, and ended up getting them, they were forced through DSC1 and mentoring conditions.

 

One good example of where there's no issue with having an HMR then looking for a variation to .222 or .223 is where your experience shows that the HMR is not the laser accurate round popularly reported especially when there's more than a puff of wind, and due to ammunition variations, which happens a lot with this round! It is not the ricochet avoidance tool it's often reported as (which is a bit of an internet myth), especially at range where velocity drops off. I have had plenty of "zingers" in HMR, especially with HP bullets. You can then apply for a CF stating good reason for the variation as more efficient vermin control in all conditions over longer ranges. The HMR is NOT a good long distance round. It's forte is from about 75 to about 140 yds. Anything anything further when there's more than a few mph of wind soon becomes a guessing game. Some people are better than others at guessing...I guess! Something like a .222 or .223 takes a lot of the guesswork out and ensure one shot one kill as they're no-where near as affected by wind and with frangible bullets will vaporise if striking anything solid at closer ranges especially. The variations in ammo can be negated by developing your own home loads, so you have more confidence in POI. Two or three missed shots with HMR = one round of CF ammunition so HMR is not the cheapest round going if that is considered. These are all good enough reasons for having CF either in place of or additional to HMR on your FAC.

 

In your shoes, I would apply for 22LR, HMR and 222/223. HMR you can give as the tool for calm conditions to 100-140 yds, 22LR for stealthy bunny control, and CF for longer range vermin control where accuracy is way more important. You'll should get AOLQ on them all anyway.

[Harry Callahan]

 

Not becessarily. Providing you have good reason, there's no reason to refuse anything you apply for. The restriction some forces may apply is if there's no history of your experience for some of the more powerful calibres because their responsibility towards the wider public may cause them to get fidgety of say you applied for a .308 on your first FAC application. Whilst I do know of two people who did just that, and ended up getting them, they were forced through DSC1 and mentoring conditions.

 

One good example of where there's no issue with having an HMR then looking for a variation to .222 or .223 is where your experience shows that the HMR is not the laser accurate round popularly reported especially when there's more than a puff of wind, and due to ammunition variations, which happens a lot with this round! It is not the ricochet avoidance tool it's often reported as (which is a bit of an internet myth), especially at range where velocity drops off. I have had plenty of "zingers" in HMR, especially with HP bullets. You can then apply for a CF stating good reason for the variation as more efficient vermin control in all conditions over longer ranges. The HMR is NOT a good long distance round. It's forte is from about 75 to about 140 yds. Anything anything further when there's more than a few mph of wind soon becomes a guessing game. Some people are better than others at guessing...I guess! Something like a .222 or .223 takes a lot of the guesswork out and ensure one shot one kill as they're no-where near as affected by wind and with frangible bullets will vaporise if striking anything solid at closer ranges especially. The variations in ammo can be negated by developing your own home loads, so you have more confidence in POI. Two or three missed shots with HMR = one round of CF ammunition so HMR is not the cheapest round going if that is considered. These are all good enough reasons for having CF either in place of or additional to HMR on your FAC.

 

In your shoes, I would apply for 22LR, HMR and 222/223. HMR you can give as the tool for calm conditions to 100-140 yds, 22LR for stealthy bunny control, and CF for longer range vermin control where accuracy is way more important. You'll should get AOLQ on them all anyway.

Very good post, sound advice.

[ElvisThePelvis]

Just to say : most FEOs wouldn't know the difference between 222, 223, 22-250, or any of the other various cartridge types in the 22CF range. So don't go overthinking it.

 

I personally have a 22LR and a 223Rem - both of them are conditioned for target and pest control. I've got a variation application in now for a 308. I do quite a bit of target shooting, so a 223 makes a lot of sense for me, as it's cheap to buy ammunition for, and virtually every RFD carries ammunition for it on the shelf. Same for the 308, when it eventually comes through.

 

People will go on and on about why a 22-250 is better than a 223, or whether the 222 is better than either of them, or maybe you should go for a 223Ackley, or even going for a 220Swift ... as you can see, it can get ridiculous !

 

But at the end of the day, 99% of misses are down to the numpty on the trigger.

Excellent, thank you

If you go for this round some forces / staff have a reasonable excuse to leave you stuck with it for a varmint round, getting centrefire varmint round could take a lot more convincing on your part to show you have a need/ reason for such a gun if you allready have a 17HMR..

If you have looked at the 17HMR and its all youy ever dreamed of fine put it down, but i gave my oppinion on what you should do and i would get a centrefire ignore the HMR alltogrether. Go .222 its in my experience more accurate than the ubiquitous .223 and its going to have reasoable performance most forces will accept as a first centerfire varmint round, the .223 and .22250 could well be granted, but with the .222 i believe you are showing a responsible attitude as a first time applicant and inexperienced new comer to this area of sport.

The student of ballistics approach is not to be ignored the .222 is a prime candidate as a first time varminter and will respond well to reloads as it is an uncanily accurate round as it comes, If you present your case for a .222 with some good insight into why you want it, i think it will just be granted.

Thank you, I hadn't thought that far into the future, this is really useful

[TONY R]

 

Just to say : most FEOs wouldn't know the difference between 222, 223, 22-250, or any of the other various cartridge types in the 22CF range. So don't go overthinking it.

 

I personally have a 22LR and a 223Rem - both of them are conditioned for target and pest control. I've got a variation application in now for a 308. I do quite a bit of target shooting, so a 223 makes a lot of sense for me, as it's cheap to buy ammunition for, and virtually every RFD carries ammunition for it on the shelf. Same for the 308, when it eventually comes through.

 

People will go on and on about why a 22-250 is better than a 223, or whether the 222 is better than either of them, or maybe you should go for a 223Ackley, or even going for a 220Swift ... as you can see, it can get ridiculous !

 

But at the end of the day, 99% of misses are down to the numpty on the trigger.

You are probably right, i just gave him advice on my experiences and those of people i know both now and historicaly, all the forces dont sing from the same hymn sheet i am as sure as i can be on that fact.

[ElvisThePelvis]

Not becessarily. Providing you have good reason, there's no reason to refuse anything you apply for. The restriction some forces may apply is if there's no history of your experience for some of the more powerful calibres because their responsibility towards the wider public may cause them to get fidgety of say you applied for a .308 on your first FAC application. Whilst I do know of two people who did just that, and ended up getting them, they were forced through DSC1 and mentoring conditions.

 

One good example of where there's no issue with having an HMR then looking for a variation to .222 or .223 is where your experience shows that the HMR is not the laser accurate round popularly reported especially when there's more than a puff of wind, and due to ammunition variations, which happens a lot with this round! It is not the ricochet avoidance tool it's often reported as (which is a bit of an internet myth), especially at range where velocity drops off. I have had plenty of "zingers" in HMR, especially with HP bullets. You can then apply for a CF stating good reason for the variation as more efficient vermin control in all conditions over longer ranges. The HMR is NOT a good long distance round. It's forte is from about 75 to about 140 yds. Anything anything further when there's more than a few mph of wind soon becomes a guessing game. Some people are better than others at guessing...I guess! Something like a .222 or .223 takes a lot of the guesswork out and ensure one shot one kill as they're no-where near as affected by wind and with frangible bullets will vaporise if striking anything solid at closer ranges especially. The variations in ammo can be negated by developing your own home loads, so you have more confidence in POI. Two or three missed shots with HMR = one round of CF ammunition so HMR is not the cheapest round going if that is considered. These are all good enough reasons for having CF either in place of or additional to HMR on your FAC.

 

In your shoes, I would apply for 22LR, HMR and 222/223. HMR you can give as the tool for calm conditions to 100-140 yds, 22LR for stealthy bunny control, and CF for longer range vermin control where accuracy is way more important. You'll should get AOLQ on them all anyway.

Fabulous, thank you, mindful of spaces in the cabinet, perhaps the .17hmr is unnecessary? Or is a CF too much at 80 yards?

[Dekers]

There is a lot of doom and gloom in some previous posts.

 

Apply for what you can justify, don't start getting too clever about calibres you don't know much about.

 

If you feel you can justify it then go for .22lr, HMR and .243, ALL with moderators.

 

It isn't impossible, I got OPEN FAC, centerfires and rimfires on Original application.

 

 

Edit

There is no specific time scale for buying your rifles but you will normally need to fill all your slots during the lifetime of your FAC (5 years).

 

If you don't you are likely to have a hard time justifying your need for them if you haven't bought them within 5 years of grant!

Edited March 17, 2016 by Dekers

[TONY R]

Fabulous, thank you, mindful of spaces in the cabinet, perhaps the .17hmr is unnecessary? Or is a CF too much at 80 yards?

No just apply for what you want, think about it do some research its not a race, but setting up a rifle you decide you dont want can be a costly business. Expense is probably not your prime motivator here but looking practicaly at the various rounds could streamline your spending.

[winnie&bezza]

I applied for 17hmr and .22 first but I shared the .22 that the gamekeeper who I helped out owned. Bought the 17hnr and after a month the keeper rung up the FEO (sounded bet from him) and he said that the .17 wasn't man enough on foxes and the ground is flinty so ricochets were occurring which was a lie but I got a .223 pretty quick.

[ElvisThePelvis]

No just apply for what you want, think about it do some research its not a race, but setting up a rifle you decide you dont want can be a costly business. Expense is probably not your prime motivator here but looking practicaly at the various rounds could streamline your spending.

That's good advice, I had completely discounted CF as a new applicant but maybe that was pessimistic, if I can find two, or even one 'do it all' then that would really help as I only really have three spaces in the cabinet. I suppose if I apply for 22 cf 22 rf and section1 shotgun then due to the timescales involved with Essex (around a year) I have plenty of time to research

[Dekers]

That's good advice, I had completely discounted CF as a new applicant but maybe that was pessimistic, if I can find two, or even one 'do it all' then that would really help as I only really have three spaces in the cabinet. I suppose if I apply for 22 cf 22 rf and section1 shotgun then due to the timescales involved with Essex (around a year) I have plenty of time to research

 

 

What sort of cabinet do you have...storage requirements are different for shotgun and rifle!

[TONY R]

That's good advice, I had completely discounted CF as a new applicant but maybe that was pessimistic, if I can find two, or even one 'do it all' then that would really help as I only really have three spaces in the cabinet. I suppose if I apply for 22 cf 22 rf and section1 shotgun then due to the timescales involved with Essex (around a year) I have plenty of time to research

With .222 you have to option for roe deer in scotland, which may or may not be of interest to you at this time. .222 makes the ftlbs needed up there, and its still an awesome varmint round.

[ElvisThePelvis]

What sort of cabinet do you have...storage requirements are different for shotgun and rifle!

I have a gun safe with locking ammo cabinet, it's fits 8 guns including scopes but already has 4 shotguns and an air rifle in, I can't remember the make

[Dekers]

I have a gun safe with locking ammo cabinet, it's fits 8 guns including scopes but already has 4 shotguns and an air rifle in, I can't remember the make