Orban's speech puts EU and immigration into perspective

[TDS]

It looks like the EU is starting to unravel....GOOD

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/654175/French-voters-demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit?ref=yfp

[Elmer Fudd.]

Fortune asked "Does anyone use other types of forum where there is a strong feeling for staying or leaving?"

 

 

 

I go on a couple of fishing forums where opinion is approx 80% in favour of leaving.

It's about the same on the army forum as well.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Elmer Fudd.

[Danger-Mouse]

Fortune asked "Does anyone use other types of forum where there is a strong feeling for staying or leaving?"

 

 

 

I go on a couple of fishing forums where opinion is approx 80% in favour of leaving.

It's about the same on the army forum as well.

 

This is what confuses me with the polls I`m seeing in the press. Everyone of them has it as a close race yet on here and on the few other forums I`ve seen polls on, as well as people I talk to the option to leave is far more strongly supported.

[Dr D]

That speech is full of contradictions. They have only been in the EU for over a decade. Yet he doesn't like the club and seems to hate those pesky human rights defenders. I am always concerned when a leader has a crack at human rights, particularly in country with the track record of Hungary. He should leave and close the borders or perhaps join jobbik. The views certainly don't seem to be far removed.

[fern01]

It is a fact that at lot of countries in Europe, particularly Greece, France, Germany etc. are moving to the far right of the political spectrum due to mass migration.

 

Only time will tell how many.

[rodp]

It will all lead to trouble this immigration, big trouble I tell ya !!

[mossberg-operator]

That speech is full of contradictions. They have only been in the EU for over a decade. Yet he doesn't like the club and seems to hate those pesky human rights defenders. I am always concerned when a leader has a crack at human rights, particularly in country with the track record of Hungary. He should leave and close the borders or perhaps join jobbik. The views certainly don't seem to be far removed.

All of this is propaganda for the voters, designed by Habony.

[poontang]

It is a fact that at lot of countries in Europe, particularly Greece, France, Germany etc. are moving to the far right of the political spectrum due to mass migration.

 

Only time will tell how many.

 

They're not moving to the far right. They're simply moving back to traditional conservatism.

The far right only exists in the minds of Guardian readers and the BBC.

 

 

 

All of this is propaganda for the voters, designed by Habony.

 

One man's propaganda is another man's truth.

[Dr D]

One man's propaganda is another man's truth.

 

No it not! You talking rubbish

 

Propaganda = "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

 

Truth = "that which accords with fact or reality".

[poontang]

 

No it not! You talking rubbish

 

Propaganda = "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

 

Truth = "that which accords with fact or reality".

 

 

Thank you for the definitions, they've proven my point exactly.

 

The crux of Mr Orbans speech is the imposition of immigrant quotas on nation states by the EU.

 

londonercsecse is of the opinion that this is biased and misleading ie. propaganda. The reality of the matter is the EU is indeed imposing quotas, therefore Mr Orban is telling the truth.

 

Ergo, 'One man's propaganda is another man's truth'.

 

 

 

[rjimmer]

From a few people I have spoken to, those youngsters who have become institutionalized in the last 40 years by the EU, are inclined to vote to stay in.

[Dr D]

Thank you for the definitions, they've proven my point exactly.

 

The crux of Mr Orbans speech is the imposition of immigrant quotas on nation states by the EU.

 

londonercsecse is of the opinion that this is biased and misleading ie. propaganda. The reality of the matter is the EU is indeed imposing quotas, therefore Mr Orban is telling the truth.

 

Ergo, 'One man's propaganda is another man's truth

 

Propaganda is completely different from truth. The one man's carp is antithetical. One man propoganda is not anothers truth. I prove nothing other than the total meaningless of the statement. One of the men is simply wrong. I am betting it is the Hungarian PM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[poontang]

 

 

Propaganda is completely different from truth. The one man's carp is antithetical. One man propoganda is not anothers truth. I prove nothing other than the total meaningless of the statement. One of the men is simply wrong. I am betting it is the Hungarian PM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're not quite getting this are you?

 

What some may see as propaganda others may see as truth. It all depends on peoples perspective. To say one man is simply wrong is no argument.

 

The old saying 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' is a clear example of what I'm saying. As someone living in N.Ireland I'm sure you will have heard the very same argument made about the likes of the IRA? Terrorist or freedom fighter will depend on what you believe.

Ask an Israeli if Hamas are terrorists or freedom fighters and the answer will be diametrically opposed to the opinion of a Palestinian.

 

My statement was quite clear and unambiguous, designed to make a simple point without having to go into a long winded description,

Most people I'm sure, would have understood the point I was making, as I'm sure deep down, you did too.

[mossberg-operator]

Thank you for the definitions, they've proven my point exactly.

 

The crux of Mr Orbans speech is the imposition of immigrant quotas on nation states by the EU.

 

londonercsecse is of the opinion that this is biased and misleading ie. propaganda. The reality of the matter is the EU is indeed imposing quotas, therefore Mr Orban is telling the truth.

 

Ergo, 'One man's propaganda is another man's truth'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

. Orban telling the truth? You are so NAIVE!

[mossberg-operator]

Poontang: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/hello-dictator-hungary-orban-viktor-119125

[Danger-Mouse]

"European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker dispensed with diplomatic protocol to greet Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán with a puckish, “Hello, dictator!”

 

A tad ironic given his own undemocratically elected status. Or maybe it just takes one to know one.

[poontang]

. Orban telling the truth? You are so NAIVE!

 

Are the EU trying to impose migrant quotas on European nations? That's what his speech was about. If the answer is Yes, then he was talking truthfully. You obviously don't like the man, and that's fine, but it's naive of you to believe that just because you're a Hungarian I should take everything you say about your countries PM as gospel.

Poontang: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/hello-dictator-hungary-orban-viktor-119125

Two sides to every coin. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/hungary/12086883/Viktor-Orban-is-no-fascist-hes-David-Camerons-best-chance-at-EU-reform.html

Edited March 26, 2016 by poontang

[mossberg-operator]

Are the EU trying to impose migrant quotas on European nations? That's what his speech was about. If the answer is Yes, then he was talking truthfully. You obviously don't like the man, and that's fine, but it's naive of you to believe that just because you're a Hungarian I should take everything you say about your countries PM as gospel.

 

 

Two sides to every coin. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/hungary/12086883/Viktor-Orban-is-no-fascist-hes-David-Camerons-best-chance-at-EU-reform.html

if Orban has raided your private pension fund too "Robin Hood style", You would have a different opinion of him. Explanation: few years ago he abolished all private pension funds in the country, transferrred 90% of the money to the state, 10% paid out. Effectively stole the money. Would You lke D.C. If he does that in the U. K. ? To answer your question: EU quota on migrants are voluntary. He opted out. Nothing more to stay. He is building a totalitarian state. Period. Edited March 27, 2016 by londonercsecse

[Lloyd90]

Well in Bristol we are already getting flyers and leaflets full of "facts" about how much money we earn and how many jobs the EU creates, all sorts on it hinting that if we leave prices in shops will increase, jobs will be lost and they claim for every £1 we put in we get £9 back!

 

I don't believe it myself and want out, but I've not received any leaflets or flyers from the out campaign.

 

The stay in campaign will have a head start and be ingrained in the idiots and undecided before the out campaign gets their act together at this rate!

[poontang]

if Orban has raided your private pension fund too "Robin Hood style", You would have a different opinion of him. Explanation: few years ago he abolished all private pension funds in the country, transferrred 90% of the money to the state, 10% paid out. Effectively stole the money. Would You lke D.C. If he does that in the U. K. ? To answer your question: EU quota on migrants are voluntary. He opted out. Nothing more to stay. He is building a totalitarian state. Period.

 

With all due respect I have absolutely zero interest in the domestic politics of Hungary.

 

However I do have an interest in democracy, and I'm afraid you're wrong in saying the migrant quotas are voluntary. On 22nd Sept last year the EU Home Affairs ministers adopted the decision to implement quotas on all EU states. The only countries with an opt out are the UK, Ireland, Denmark and Switzerland.

The decision would normally have had to have been passed by a unanimous acceptance of all member states as it's a decision affecting national sovereignty. In this case it was passed by a majority decision as Hungary and a few other eastern states opposed the quotas. Those who are opposed have a right of appeal, but if that fails and they still refuse to accept the quotas they will be fined by the EU.

That, in my view, is in no way right or democratic. It's authoritarian, it's bullying, and it's totally unacceptable to try and force a sovereign nation to accept a decision made elsewhere under threat of financial penalties.

You may believe Orban's building a totalitarian state, and maybe he is, but he seems to enjoy popularity ratings most world leaders would envy. From what I can gather the opposition in Hungary is in disarray at the moment so it's up to them to put forward a credible argument and beat Orban at the ballot box. That is how things change and how democracy works.

Unfortunately those in the EU who made the decision on quotas cannot be voted out of office in the same way.

[UKPoacher]

 

With all due respect I have absolutely zero interest in the domestic politics of Hungary.

 

However I do have an interest in democracy, and I'm afraid you're wrong in saying the migrant quotas are voluntary. On 22nd Sept last year the EU Home Affairs ministers adopted the decision to implement quotas on all EU states. The only countries with an opt out are the UK, Ireland, Denmark and Switzerland.

The decision would normally have had to have been passed by a unanimous acceptance of all member states as it's a decision affecting national sovereignty. In this case it was passed by a majority decision as Hungary and a few other eastern states opposed the quotas. Those who are opposed have a right of appeal, but if that fails and they still refuse to accept the quotas they will be fined by the EU.

That, in my view, is in no way right or democratic. It's authoritarian, it's bullying, and it's totally unacceptable to try and force a sovereign nation to accept a decision made elsewhere under threat of financial penalties.

You may believe Orban's building a totalitarian state, and maybe he is, but he seems to enjoy popularity ratings most world leaders would envy. From what I can gather the opposition in Hungary is in disarray at the moment so it's up to them to put forward a credible argument and beat Orban at the ballot box. That is how things change and how democracy works.

Unfortunately those in the EU who made the decision on quotas cannot be voted out of office in the same way.

 

The opposition in 1930's Germany were in 'disarray' after Hitler's 'Night of the Long Knives'.

 

But I agree in principle to what you are saying. Hungary's domestic situation is one thing, the EU imposing immigrant quotas on countries who don't want them, and the immigrants don't want to live there is just the EU hierarchy trying to save their own skins at other people's expense.

[poontang]

 

The opposition in 1930's Germany were in 'disarray' after Hitler's 'Night of the Long Knives'.

 

 

 

 

To be fair I don't think Orban is sending in the death squads to deal with the opposition just yet.

[mossberg-operator]

To be fair I don't think Orban is sending in the death squads to deal with the opposition just yet.

Yet.

[rjimmer]

Yet.

As your comments appear to be influenced by personal spite, I think they can be disregarded on this subject.

[mossberg-operator]

As your comments appear to be influenced by personal spite, I think they can be disregarded on this subject.

Nothing personal. Just can't stand corruption, lies, brainwashing, etc. Anywhere.