Camerons dad and his off shore tax haven

[MrM]

Oh yes I have! Plenty of em! I often feel I need a bath afterwards when I meet one

Personally I try and avoid them - or should that be evade them?

[panoma1]

Personally I try and avoid them - or should that be evade them?

 

Doesn't matter they're the same! Lol This space is a wink icon but though I put it in the text when writing it ....... It never appears in the posting? Dunno why?

[AVB]

 

You asked what should the minimum be and my answer is the basic rate applicable to the average earner, at least that way we don't have schemes designed to pilfer money out of the country without paying ANY tax, 20% is a whole lot better than nothing. You should pay whatever percentage your earnings fall into which for high earners can be as high as 50% after they have passed a certain threshold.

Ok so what you are saying is that I can reduce my liability through legal means as long as it doesn't fall below 20%. I can live with that.

 

How do you know that Cameron senior didn't pay 20% tax on his overall income?

[Hamster]

Ok so what you are saying is that I can reduce my liability through legal means as long as it doesn't fall below 20%. I can live with that.

 

How do you know that Cameron senior didn't pay 20% tax on his overall income?

 

I'm saying there has to be something paid rather than nothing. I'm saying I'm intelligent and logical enough to realise the world can never rid itself of white collar thieves and corruption but that we at least need even stealing to be controlled, what we have at the moment is unsustainable even for the thieves because everything has a limit including peoples tolerance to be raped of their standard of living - there will come a day when things will get ugly, that is what nobody can afford.

[AVB]

 

I'm saying there has to be something paid rather than nothing. I'm saying I'm intelligent and logical enough to realise the world can never rid itself of white collar thieves and corruption but that we at least need even stealing to be controlled, what we have at the moment is unsustainable even for the thieves because everything has a limit including peoples tolerance to be raped of their standard of living - there will come a day when things will get ugly, that is what nobody can afford.

Answer the question. How do you know that Cameron Senior didn't pay 20% tax (your definition of the moral threshold) on his total income?

[UKPoacher]

It appears that David Cameron has suddenly remembered that he did own shares in the company in question. Sort of thing anyone could forget

[ditchman]

It appears that David Cameron has suddenly remembered that he did own shares in the company in question. Sort of thing anyone could forget

 

 

why would anybody bother with 30k in a shady offshore bank in the virgin ilses or where ever...........why is it i dont trust any of them..........

[Hamster]

Answer the question. How do you know that Cameron Senior didn't pay 20% tax (your definition of the moral threshold) on his total income?

 

I am not interested in what Cameron's father did or didn't pay, this is about a much much wider issue, huge sums being hidden off shore under false names and corporations using deliberately devised loopholes to evade paying fair tax on monies earned from this and many other countries. It's the disease I'm focused on not the infected.

 

PS. For what it's worth I believe the press have been coerced into releasing this information in other words it's not a scoop or investigative journalism but deliberate and calculated drip feed of info by the very people who are doing the thieving, i.e, the rich and powerful who own the media, banking and everything else. It's to make the common man think at last it has been exposed and something will be done about it which of course it won't.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Hamster

[AVB]

 

I am not interested in what Cameron's father did or didn't pay, this is about a much much wider issue, huge sums being hidden off shore under false names and corporations using deliberately devised loopholes to evade paying fair tax on monies earned from this and many other countries. It's the disease I'm focused on not the infected.

 

PS. For what it's worth I believe the press have been coerced into releasing this information in other words it's not a scoop or investigative journalism but deliberate and calculated drip feed of info by the very people who are doing the thieving, i.e, the rich and powerful who own the media, banking and everything else. It's to make the common man think at last it has been exposed and something will be done about it which of course it won't.

 

I don't believe that they have. The ICIJ and the Guardian have taken it upon themselves to be the moral guardians of the tax system. I had a run in with them 18 months ago when they tried the same thing with my Bank. It was sensationalist journalism at its's worst - "shock horror these people have an offshore bank account, not that's there anything wrong in having an offshore bank account, but why do they have it?". Ignoring the fact that some of the people were residents of Jersey and others were Uk residents receiving income from an offshore account who paid UK taxes. It was a nothing story that didn't get the traction that this story has got and was overshadowed by the downing of the Malaysia airline over the Ukraine. So they take the moral high ground but refuse to acknowledge the hypocrisy of the Guardian also using offshore tax structures. Legally of course. It's just cheap sensationalism. By all means target the money launderers & drug dealers etc. but don't tar everybody who uses an offshore structure as bad. We don't like it when shooters get tarred with being bad because a lunatic shoots some kids. And you are falling into the same trap.

[Hamster]

 

I don't believe that they have. The ICIJ and the Guardian have taken it upon themselves to be the moral guardians of the tax system. I had a run in with them 18 months ago when they tried the same thing with my Bank. It was sensationalist journalism at its's worst - "shock horror these people have an offshore bank account, not that's there anything wrong in having an offshore bank account, but why do they have it?". Ignoring the fact that some of the people were residents of Jersey and others were Uk residents receiving income from an offshore account who paid UK taxes. It was a nothing story that didn't get the traction that this story has got and was overshadowed by the downing of the Malaysia airline over the Ukraine. So they take the moral high ground but refuse to acknowledge the hypocrisy of the Guardian also using offshore tax structures. Legally of course. It's just cheap sensationalism. By all means target the money launderers & drug dealers etc. but don't tar everybody who uses an offshore structure as bad. We don't like it when shooters get tarred with being bad because a lunatic shoots some kids. And you are falling into the same trap.

 

Dunno, to be absolutely clear about this I am not worried about the guy who makes £100k extra by playing the system legally because he will re-spend it, my problem is with the Starbucks and Amazons of this world who drain the economy without replenishing it, they play the system too (legally) as do Philip Green and Bernie Ecclestone but the fact remains they earn the money but refuse to pay tax and the reason they can do it is because loopholes are deliberately left open for them.

 

I personally don't see the equivalency between my dislike of that and someone who thinks all shooters are murderers.

[SNS]

Dunno, to be absolutely clear about this I am not worried about the guy who makes £100k extra by playing the system legally because he will re-spend it, my problem is with the Starbucks and Amazons of this world who drain the economy without replenishing it, they play the system too (legally) as do Philip Green and Bernie Ecclestone but the fact remains they earn the money but refuse to pay tax and the reason they can do it is because loopholes are deliberately left open for them.

 

could you tell me more about these loopholes that are deliberately left open ? I think I'd like to use some

[buze]

It appears that David Cameron has suddenly remembered that he did own shares in the company in question. Sort of thing anyone could forget

 

No worry he'll apologize and promise not to do it again in the future. After all, forgetfulness is not a crime, you pesky nitpicker!

[SDP290GD-Marcus]

Wor Tone 'n Cherry nivver even got a mention, 'n ah fink they could larn D Cameron, or his father, or any other "Tory" a few lessons in shrewd, amoral, or downright immoral (but definately not anything provably illegal) financial transactions, to avoid paying tax.

Or the extended Euro pig-trough snuffling Jay family.

cheers

marcus

Edited April 7, 2016 by SDP290GD-Marcus

[TriBsa]

 

No worry he'll apologize and promise not to do it again in the future. After all, forgetfulness is not a crime, you pesky nitpicker!

 

Exactly, I'm sure many Pigeonwatch members have mistakenly left £30,000 in the back pocket of their trousers and chucked them in the washing machine. Easily done. Loose change after all. Or driven off with a Police escort from a country pub leaving one of their kids behind.......

[Hamster]

 

could you tell me more about these loopholes that are deliberately left open ? I think I'd like to use some

 

There have been a few documentaries and articles on the various methods of deception but in essence it means a company making £50m profit in the UK can claim it is operating out of another country with much more "friendly" tax bands so they pay a pittance to that country (which knows the score ) and completely avoid any taxes here ! The huge sums involved are then wired to even "friendlier" corrupt little islands with banking systems created specifically to deal with ill gotten gains.

 

These satellite crime syndicate islands are run by puppet governors which conveniently have laws which deny freedom of information so you simply can't unravel who the various accounts belong to or how much they contain. In return these governors are buttered like ******* . It is the ultimate white collar crime and governments the world over are in on it, hence why I believe eventually something will give and there'll be trouble. History tells us corrupt rule always meets an unexpectedly brutal end.

[SNS]

There have been a few documentaries and articles on the various methods of deception but in essence it means a company making £50m profit in the UK can claim it is operating out of another country with much more "friendly" tax bands so they pay a pittance to that country (which knows the score ) and completely avoid any taxes here ! The huge sums involved are then wired to even "friendlier" corrupt little islands with banking systems created specifically to deal with ill gotten gains.

 

These satellite crime syndicate islands are run by puppet governors which conveniently have laws which deny freedom of information so you simply can't unravel who the various accounts belong to or how much they contain. In return these governors are buttered like ******* . It is the ultimate white collar crime and governments the world over are in on it, hence why I believe eventually something will give and there'll be trouble. History tells us corrupt rule always meets an unexpectedly brutal end.

 

Sadly that one doesn't work anymore. Diverted profits tax means a 25% charge since April last year

[vole]

I dislike most of the press but I want them to shake him like a rat at the moment . Legal does not mean Right . I hope DC gets stiffed over this and when the EU vote uppercuts him and the wonderful Mr Osborne .Ace .

[Willxx]

I remember seeing a programme which outlined the methods in which high earners could reduce their tax liabilities, the example they showed was a mobile phone company owner who paid less income tax than one of his employees on a basic wage. Regardless of your political flavouring this is clearly wrong and I'd suggest that the intent of persons using this kind of offshore arrangement is to imitate this as much as possible.

 

In addition to this I find it quite galling that DC took the time to publicly criticise Jimmy Carr for his tax activities when they were made public which as I understand it were actually not illegal at the time but now feels it is a private matter when the boot is on the other foot.

 

All in it together my ****!

[subsonicnat]

I Bet The Banks are really getting the Gitters, Get an own goal of them, Will take your mind off the grubby **** who are at it all the time Take Jeffery Robinson MP Coventry north,, Twice Fingers in the Till, Probably told By Blaire (Just Before Jumping Ship) To keep his Head down so we all forget about it, Managing director J D Cars, Backside hanging out, now a Multi Millionaire..

Blaires make me sick, another that had good jobs for him and misses and had to scarper quick, before those Cracking jobs ran out.. They are all thieves,, Never Forget it::

They would send a letter to you for 2p owed, when its millions,,, they Forget.. Amazing eh..

[Hamster]

Sadly that one doesn't work anymore. Diverted profits tax means a 25% charge since April last year

 

There must be others for Google/FB to have exploited. My point is NO such loopholes should exist, it is clearly possible to have international laws which prohibit movement of money without paying tax at country of source, I am not interested in individuals but simply think we need to have legislation to force everyone to pay tax.

 

If you or I walked into our bank and tried to deposit £200k there would be a flag raised somewhere and you'd need to explain where it came from, foreign money in the billions on the other hand has poured into London via transfers with no questions asked they buy properties there like it's going out of fashion which pushes prices up which in turn makes rent ludicrously expensive which in turn empties OUR pockets yet again. This is my issue not Cameron.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hamster

[yod dropper]

I have just listened to a good interview on R4s Today Program. John Humphrys was put in his place. It wasn't a trust but a company, a hedge fund, the type of thing that most pension funds will have investments in. It paid distributions which were taxed. I think the biggest story is the poor PR advice DC has been given. I'm no fan of the man but...

 

Meanwhile, this has been rumbling for years but has never gained traction, the much feted basher of corporate tax avoiders and head of the parliamentary public accounts committee, Margaret Hodge. It's never what, but who.....

 

 

"Margaret Hodge's family company pays just 0.01pc tax on £2.1bn of business generated in the UK" (2012)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businesslatestnews/9668396/Margaret-Hodges-family-company-pays-just-0.01pc-tax-on-2.1bn-of-business-generated-in-the-UK.html

 

 

"Three quarters of the shares in the family's Liechtenstein trust had previously been held in Panama, which Ms Hodge described last month as "one of the most secretive jurisdictions" (2015)

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/anti-tax-avoidance-campaigner-margaret-hodge-given-1-5m-shares-tax-haven-liechtenstein-1498813

Edited April 8, 2016 by yod dropper

[MrM]

 

No worry he'll apologize and promise not to do it again in the future. After all, forgetfulness is not a crime, you pesky nitpicker!

 

It now appears that this "dodgy immoral" tax evasion fund is in reality a (now) Dublin based Distributor hedge fund, where all dividend taxes are paid in the holders country - in fact the sort of fund pretty much all pensions invest in! As a tax lawyer said on breakfast this morning, it would the last place he would advise any of his clients to put their money if they were looking to minimise tax liability.

[panoma1]

Why would people go to a rich persons tax avoidance law firm in Panama to invest in a scheme in Dublin? Don't understand?

[AVB]

 

It now appears that this "dodgy immoral" tax evasion fund is in reality a (now) Dublin based Distributor hedge fund, where all dividend taxes are paid in the holders country - in fact the sort of fund pretty much all pensions invest in! As a tax lawyer said on breakfast this morning, it would the last place he would advise any of his clients to put their money if they were looking to minimise tax liability.

 

And that's the problem. The vast majority of people do not understand the difference between the many different structures in place. And whipped up by the rabid press the use of the 'term' offshore has become synonimous with 'dodgy' The UK is an offshore entity to anybody outside of the UK. The biggest 'offshore' location is the US who have been very quiet in this whole thing.

[Hamster]

Why would people go to a rich persons tax avoidance law firm in Panama to invest in a scheme in Dublin? Don't understand?