22RF for 223/22-250CF?????

[ShootingEgg]

Right so some people say there are no laws or rules stating someone has to have experience.. I use a 22 and a 17 Currently. And have asked to vary to 22.250 and 243. AVS have asked me to do an awareness course as i dont have the necessary experience in their eyes. Which i can agree with. After dling the course and not being a complete idiot i now have more knowledge and know that i would not take stupid shots with any rifle be it my air or rimmy.

 

The problem os no matter what they suggest there are ways of getting round it.

 

Mentoring - anyone can put pen to paper and make it look like they have been out multiple times.

 

Awareness course - if you know someone who can print out a bit of paper stating you have done it then again youve got a bit of paper...

 

I think there should be some way of gaining experience as just getting a cf that can happily go 4 miles with ease is not always a good idea.

 

Just my thoughts

[kent]

My only option was to go out with an experienced shooter and take some shots. I was told that range experience didn't count. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a 223 so I won't be able to move up to a center fire.

 

On the other hand, I got my hmr conditioned for fox, but that doesn't help at the distances I wanted to shoot.

 

It's a funny old game, a friend of mine got a 308 on his first application - I guess it's down to the feo on the day.

It is but I think you need to read what is actually written

 

Courses exist and I have seen a few people through this off this forum even

I am sure others have also

 

You know if you have shot hmr for a year or two and have need of a cf then frankly they won't enter court on appeal. In fact I could bet money if you stuck to your request rather than withdrew after the feo said no the chief constable in your area would sign it off

[keg]

Had my ticket since 2009 with .22LR Bolt Action, 17HMR .222 and .308. Opened up after a couple of years but .308 is still closed Just about to send of for a variation for a.22 Semi Automatic.

[Vince Green]

Why?

The key words in my post are recognised and regulated. You have to do their course to shoot at Bisley now (and on any other MOD ranges I believe). My point is once you have the qualification they can't really impose so many restrictions. How could they not grant an open ticket for example? How many people get turned down for FACs and SGCs that we never know about?

 

It works well in motorcycling and diving, it gives a certain status to the individual and by implication the sport.

[kent]

Yet target shooters know little to nothing about shot assessment. This has always bothered me when target guys get open tickets from the off

Shooting in the field is a world away from range orders

[Dougy]

Kent.

I totally agree with you.

[Scully]

The key words in my post are recognised and regulated. You have to do their course to shoot at Bisley now (and on any other MOD ranges I believe). My point is once you have the qualification they can't really impose so many restrictions. How could they not grant an open ticket for example? How many people get turned down for FACs and SGCs that we never know about?

 

It works well in motorcycling and diving, it gives a certain status to the individual and by implication the sport.

 

Can't agree with any of that I'm afraid.

[flynny]

 

 

Keep the 22 slot mate and pay for another variation, 22 is well handy,

 

Off topic but replying to others threads!!!!

 

I'm proberbly gonna get hung for this !!!!!!!but hey ho,

 

Start off with airgun at 7 years old

Get 410 at 9 years old ( my dads but mine lol)

Shoot both and 12 gauges for years,

Age 22 get my own sgc/FAC

From then had

22rf

22wmr

17hmr,

223,

243,

308

 

Open ticket from 17 hmr,

 

Every time I ask for a new calibre it is a no questions asked open calibre, why???

 

Because I have shown years of experience shooting and have worked my way up the calibres,

 

Why should any 1st time applicant be given a large or small calibre with no prior experience of firearms?I know the law states good reason,

 

But I ask you this lads and lasses, would you let joe blogs with no experience take YOU, lamping on his land? Just because he has lawfull reason and land/ permission to shoot on,

 

Any muppet can do a one day course( I've done dsc1 and am registered for dsc2 and am in a deer stalking syndicate) it doesn't mean that they have experience,

 

So you can't blame the police for being a bit cautious , I do believe and agree with most comments about different forces making it up as they go along, but why be giving out open tickets to newbies with no knowledge of firearms???( meant for use on live quarry not paper punching)

 

Tin hat is on lol

 

 

 

Flynny

Edited April 28, 2016 by flynny

[Hendrix's rifle]

Keep the 22 slot mate and pay for another variation, 22 is well handy,

 

Off topic but replying to others threads!!!!

 

I'm proberbly gonna get hung for this !!!!!!!but hey ho,

 

Start off with airgun at 7 years old

Get 410 at 9 years old ( my dads but mine lol)

Shoot both and 12 gauges for years,

Age 22 get my own sgc/FAC

From then had

22rf

22wmr

17hmr,

223,

243,

308

 

Open ticket from 17 hmr,

 

Every time I ask for a new calibre it is a no questions asked open calibre, why???

 

Because I have shown years of experience shooting and have worked my way up the calibres,

 

Why should any 1st time applicant be given a large or small calibre with no prior experience of firearms?I know the law states good reason,

 

But I ask you this lads and lasses, would you let joe blogs with no experience take YOU, lamping on his land? Just because he has lawfull reason and land/ permission to shoot on,

 

Any muppet can do a one day course( I've done dsc1 and am registered for dsc2 and am in a deer stalking syndicate) it doesn't mean that they have experience,

 

So you can't blame the police for being a bit cautious , I do believe and agree with most comments about different forces making it up as they go along, but why be giving out open tickets to newbies with no knowledge of firearms???( meant for use on live quarry not paper punching)

 

Tin hat is on lol

 

 

 

Flynny

In all fairness I do agree with that...

[ShootingEgg]

Keep the 22 slot mate and pay for another variation, 22 is well handy,

 

Off topic but replying to others threads!!!!

 

I'm proberbly gonna get hung for this !!!!!!!but hey ho,

 

Start off with airgun at 7 years old

Get 410 at 9 years old ( my dads but mine lol)

Shoot both and 12 gauges for years,

Age 22 get my own sgc/FAC

From then had

22rf

22wmr

17hmr,

223,

243,

308

 

Open ticket from 17 hmr,

 

Every time I ask for a new calibre it is a no questions asked open calibre, why???

 

Because I have shown years of experience shooting and have worked my way up the calibres,

 

Why should any 1st time applicant be given a large or small calibre with no prior experience of firearms?I know the law states good reason,

 

But I ask you this lads and lasses, would you let joe blogs with no experience take YOU, lamping on his land? Just because he has lawfull reason and land/ permission to shoot on,

 

Any muppet can do a one day course( I've done dsc1 and am registered for dsc2 and am in a deer stalking syndicate) it doesn't mean that they have experience,

 

So you can't blame the police for being a bit cautious , I do believe and agree with most comments about different forces making it up as they go along, but why be giving out open tickets to newbies with no knowledge of firearms???( meant for use on live quarry not paper punching)

 

Tin hat is on lol

 

 

 

Flynny

Agree with what you are saying. I too went from a 410 and 22 when aged 8 and then started to use higher calibre rifles abd 12g shotgun, but I have no physical proof of this as I did not hold a ticket at those ages. And then went away from shooting whilst studying. Now have my licenses but avs firearms want proof of experience. I only have my word and fair play to them for not taking it. Any one Could say they have experience. I was hapoy to do a few hours course, got a day off work and got to do something i enjoy and actually got something out of the course.

[paulnix]

The problem with awareness courses giving out a bit of paper is that it will show a person who took the test having just got the certificate and without ever really using a gun is better equipped to shoot than someone been brought up and used them for a lifetime.

 

Courses like these are easy to pass once you know how they work, the person taking them likes a bit of smoke blown up their *****, probably a bit of a chat about life and wants an easy day without too many know it alls, seen it time and time again with the courses I taken, you turn up look interested and fairly competent, ask a few questions of the guy to make it seem you eager to learn and be helpful especially on the practical side and you golden, you'll even get the tester if he likes you asking questions in such a way the answer is so obvious you need to be brain dead to fail.

I had the guy doing forklift one while showing us the course, lose a load, hit a wall and knock over the cones all in one pass, fertiliser guy asked me one question and went for a coffee while I did the practical side of driving around a field sowing all by myself just because he took me for my spayer test a month before, which he found funny because so many others had done it the wheel marks were permanent but I drove the first pass of the day out of them making everyone else followed the previous ones, he stilled passed them all though.

[screamingdead]

Keep the 22 slot mate and pay for another variation, 22 is well handy,

 

Off topic but replying to others threads!!!!

 

I'm proberbly gonna get hung for this !!!!!!!but hey ho,

 

Start off with airgun at 7 years old

Get 410 at 9 years old ( my dads but mine lol)

Shoot both and 12 gauges for years,

Age 22 get my own sgc/FAC

From then had

22rf

22wmr

17hmr,

223,

243,

308

 

Open ticket from 17 hmr,

 

Every time I ask for a new calibre it is a no questions asked open calibre, why???

 

Because I have shown years of experience shooting and have worked my way up the calibres,

 

Why should any 1st time applicant be given a large or small calibre with no prior experience of firearms?I know the law states good reason,

 

But I ask you this lads and lasses, would you let joe blogs with no experience take YOU, lamping on his land? Just because he has lawfull reason and land/ permission to shoot on,

 

Any muppet can do a one day course( I've done dsc1 and am registered for dsc2 and am in a deer stalking syndicate) it doesn't mean that they have experience,

 

So you can't blame the police for being a bit cautious , I do believe and agree with most comments about different forces making it up as they go along, but why be giving out open tickets to newbies with no knowledge of firearms???( meant for use on live quarry not paper punching)

 

Tin hat is on lol

 

 

 

Flynny

Hi Flynny

 

How did you work up the calibers? Was it a straight progression from rimfire to center fire, or did you need center fire experience before the 223 was granted?

[Dougy]

I cant answer for flynny but if you have "good reason" then you have a strong case to acquire the calibre you have asked for. If you live in an area for example with a high population of Fallow then you would be more likely to be granted a suitable calibre.

It then come down to your experience, this is the problem that you come up against, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. You cant legally have a go with your mates rifle if your not a FAC holder (I know the estate rifle bit but keep things simple) so how do you go about getting experience.

 

You can join a rifle club for a start but, and its a "BUT" from my experience of the club shooter's.

Every bit of safety is put there in front of you in the clubs I have seen. You cant shoot until the RCO says you can shoot, you cant put your bolt in unless the RCO says you can. You cant take your rife out of the slip until the RCO says you can.

The back stops are there built for you, you can only shoot in the one direction after you've been told to.

 

I'm sure you understand why I don't agree with someone saying "its OK I've been on a course" and being let loose with whatever calibre they have.

 

That's one good thing about working up from say FAC air onto 22lr then onto CF its a gradual step up. The 1st thing I shot apart from paper with my 30.06 was a 9" concrete block with a 200grn bullet, its a big step up from my 1st BSA Meteor I can tell you..

[screamingdead]

I cant answer for flynny but if you have "good reason" then you have a strong case to acquire the calibre you have asked for. If you live in an area for example with a high population of Fallow then you would be more likely to be granted a suitable calibre.

It then come down to your experience, this is the problem that you come up against, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. You cant legally have a go with your mates rifle if your not a FAC holder (I know the estate rifle bit but keep things simple) so how do you go about getting experience.

 

You can join a rifle club for a start but, and its a "BUT" from my experience of the club shooter's.

Every bit of safety is put there in front of you in the clubs I have seen. You cant shoot until the RCO says you can shoot, you cant put your bolt in unless the RCO says you can. You cant take your rife out of the slip until the RCO says you can.

The back stops are there built for you, you can only shoot in the one direction after you've been told to.

 

I'm sure you understand why I don't agree with someone saying "its OK I've been on a course" and being let loose with whatever calibre they have.

 

That's one good thing about working up from say FAC air onto 22lr then onto CF its a gradual step up. The 1st thing I shot apart from paper with my 30.06 was a 9" concrete block with a 200grn bullet, its a big step up from my 1st BSA Meteor I can tell you..

Hi Dougy

 

Over the years I've worked my way up from a 177, .410, 12 bore, fac air, 22 & 17hmr.

 

The need was a fox capable caliber with a longer reach than the hmr.

 

I appreciate it's a difference moving from rimfire to centrefire, but feo was adamant that I'd need caliber specific experience that wasn't range based, so I'm not sure the course would help.

 

Anyway, sorry I've hijacked this thread. I'm not going to appeal the decision as I enjoy shooting and don't need to get into a disagreement with feo.

 

At the moment I'm tempted to sell the Meopro scope I was saving for the planned 223 and blow the rifle budget on a new Benelli M2.

[flynny]

Hi Flynny

How did you work up the calibers? Was it a straight progression from rimfire to center fire, or did you need center fire experience before the 223 was granted?

More or less yes mate, had 22 and 17 , got them open after bout 18 months,( shot them for years, still got the 22)

 

Asked for 223 open AOLQ etc was granted, I shot this for a couple of years and then put in for 243 was granted open AOLQ with deer condition,

 

Then had 243 I got rid of this. Coz I wanted a larger deer/ boar rifle( not shot boar yet)

 

Now I own the 308 ,

 

I spoke to my FLO who is great and said to me that I've done it the right way, working up the calibres and gaining experience, all I get at variation now is "send it in no problem")

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong and I'll admit it was a pain in the bum ( we all want the big guns sooner rather than later lol)but it worked and as long as I have the land its basically a no questions asked scenario at renewal time,

 

I've shown that I am now experienced( not as much as some of the lads on here ie Dougy and reggiegun etc)

 

It's a long journey sometimes but I think it's shows to the police that you are a serious shooter not some idiot who just wants a gun

 

Atb

 

Flynny

Hi Dougy

Over the years I've worked my way up from a 177, .410, 12 bore, fac air, 22 & 17hmr.

The need was a fox capable caliber with a longer reach than the hmr.

I appreciate it's a difference moving from rimfire to centrefire, but feo was adamant that I'd need caliber specific experience that wasn't range based, so I'm not sure the course would help.

Anyway, sorry I've hijacked this thread. I'm not going to appeal the decision as I enjoy shooting and don't need to get into a disagreement with feo.

At the moment I'm tempted to sell the Meopro scope I was saving for the planned 223 and blow the rifle budget on a new Benelli M2.

Stick at it mate, it WIll come

Edited April 29, 2016 by flynny