Doctors Strike

[955i]

An alternative way to look at this is that I am a self-employed ecologist, I make sure that wildlife and habitats are protected for all to enjoy.

 

If I go on strike no-one gives a ****.

 

Yet people who have sway (doctors, police, nurses, teachers, firemen) manage to get away with doing this because they know that they can get away with it and eventually the country will bow down.

 

I haven't had a pay rise in 6 years and have to work weekends, also when I am supposed to be on leave and don't complain.

 

They knew what they signed up for, circumstances change and if you don't like it move on and get another job.

 

No sympathy here!!

Edited April 27, 2016 by 955i

[vole]

Or killing you? Arguable both ways really. Life saving surgery? Door one, Liverpool Pathway? door two

Sadly you too fell for the media vomit which lead to the care pathway being abolished . It actually was a way in which you could die while having pain,stress,nausea etc treated within a care plan rather than the miserable alternative . Which you do NOT want to know about. It did and does not shorten life just make what is left of it more bearable . Luckily for the red tops they do not have to come up with alternative care systems for dying people . Reality is a bit more complex .

[Houseplant]

 

No sympathy here!!

 

I think that's a fair enough viewpoint. After many years of education and training and for most a real passion for medicine, it's natural that they wouldn't want to get another job. What they will do is move to another country. It's been happening for years and will get worse. Nearly every one of my anaesthetic colleagues are British and about half the surgeons.

 

I know it's not a very fashionable thing to say, but it would pay to look after your doctors, nursed and other healthcare staff if you want the NHS to continue in it's current form.

[Psyxologos]

 

Wow.

 

This has got to rate as the most condescending and ignorant post I've read on here for a long, long time.

 

Maybe you would not say that, if you were able to understand what it really says, that is.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Psyxologos

[kyska]

Sadly you too fell for the media vomit which lead to the care pathway being abolished . It actually was a way in which you could die while having pain,stress,nausea etc treated within a care plan rather than the miserable alternative . Which you do NOT want to know about. It did and does not shorten life just make what is left of it more bearable . Luckily for the red tops they do not have to come up with alternative care systems for dying people . Reality is a bit more complex .

Quite.

Edited April 27, 2016 by kyska

[rodp]

I for one don't want it to continue in it's current form. It seems we're paying for all the world to use free.

 

Coincidently I went to A and E last night with my wife. She got seen relatively quickly, about half an hour or more then spent another three hours waiting for a doctor to see her. Whilst sitting in the waiting room bored stiff I did a little survey. 5 of what you would call white English patients, 11 very definitely immigrants !! No wonder we waited about 4 hours in total.

[Psyxologos]

A genuine question. Those of you who say that 'junior doctors are only in this for the money'. When the Tory party privitises the NHS, do you really think the doctors are going to end up worse off?

[Houseplant]

Or killing you? Arguable both ways really. Life saving surgery? Door one, Liverpool Pathway? door two

 

Do people actually believe what the Daily Mail says? When used correctly, the LCP was one of the most compassionate parts of modern medicine. It provided symptom relief for dying patients and prevented unnecessary (and often painful) medical intervention at the end of life. That's my view from the factory floor, from someone who has actually cared for dying patients.

 

If you really believe doctors go to work with the intention of killing someone for institutional reward, to free beds or for some other disingenuous motive, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[poontang]

 

Maybe you would not say that, if you were able to understand what it really says, that is.

 

Oh, believe me I understand exactly what you were insinuating.

 

However, if I have misunderstood perhaps you could elucidate?

[rjimmer]

Sadly you too fell for the media vomit which lead to the care pathway being abolished . It actually was a way in which you could die while having pain,stress,nausea etc treated within a care plan rather than the miserable alternative . Which you do NOT want to know about. It did and does not shorten life just make what is left of it more bearable . Luckily for the red tops they do not have to come up with alternative care systems for dying people . Reality is a bit more complex .

A couple of years ago, a local chap was in hospital and his wife had been told there was no hope and that all his organs had shut down. They were starving him to death 'nil by mouth'. A neighbour, who just happened to be an ex nurse, visited him. She complained to the doctor about what was happening. Two weeks later, the chap was out of hospital and driving his car again.

[Psyxologos]

 

Oh, believe me I understand exactly what you were insinuating.

 

However, if I have misunderstood perhaps you could elucidate?

 

I did not insinuate anything. I clearly said that if doctors have it so easy, then people who are intelligent, hard working and dedicated enough would be mad not to enrol in the medical school. There should be no other career option, as being a doctor, according to some, is easy. Well, the truth is it is not. Following a medical career requires an awful lot that the vast majority of people do not possess or are not willing to sacrifice. Maybe this is why the medical profession attracts the envy of those who cannot or would not be as intelligent, hard working and dedicated as the majority of doctors are. Of course this only becomes evident when one finds him/herself in need of a doctor.

 

I know it is difficult to accept, but doctors (and people in a handful of other professions) are unlike any other professionals. They are the best among us who sacrifice too much to serve others. They need to be recognised as such. This is why they strike at the moment. Because they are in the forefront of the fight to maintain quality and safety of care, and they see what is happening in front of their eyes. hunt himself has written a book saying the thinks the NHS should be privatised. I will insist. Despite what some say, this is NOT about pay. Do you really think the doctors are going to end up worse off in a privatised healthcare system? Perhaps you are unaware of how a doctor is paid in the NHS and what salary they get in private practice. Or perhaps how much locums are paid in order to fill in for the vacant medical posts. In a long weekend (three 12 hour shifts) a locum ST6 makes as much a 'regular' ST6 makes in three weeks.

[ShootingEgg]

So the strike today wasnt about Saturday pay banding.. And the BMA haven't agreed 15 of the 16 points...

[vole]

A couple of years ago, a local chap was in hospital and his wife had been told there was no hope and that all his organs had shut down. They were starving him to death 'nil by mouth'. A neighbour, who just happened to be an ex nurse, visited him. She complained to the doctor about what was happening. Two weeks later, the chap was out of hospital and driving his car again.

Nil by mouth because anything taken orally went into the airway causing choking or pneumonia . So, you put a tube up the nose into the stomach . Or you put one directly though the abdominal wall into the stomach . Strangely enough ,patients dislike this and tend to pull them out . As would I . Not as simple as you would like ey ? People always know better though we have devoted our lives to this torture . What do we know eh .

[tx4cabbie]

To say that they knew what they were getting into, and therefore should just put up with it, is missing the point.

 

My wife got her degree then trained to be a teacher, working tremendously hard to achieve the highest qualification. She knew that her working hours would be long and her pay low (for someone with her qualifications), but she would receive job satisfaction and a half decent pension.

 

Then the government started moving the goalposts. First her pay was frozen, along with that of every other public sector worker (except most), which equates to a pay cut since 2008. Next the pension was altered to make it much less beneficial. She wasn't teaching for the money, or she'd be working with her mate in a city insurance company for three times her teacher's salary, but in any job the remuneration counts as important.

Her conditions worsened, the inducements lessened, and after several years of being paid for a 6 hr day but working at least ten hrs daily and a fair number of wkds, she's finally jacked it in, and whilst she is now happier, education has lost a truly dedicated and talented teacher.

 

Doctors go into medicine knowing that the 7 year training, the random posting anywhere in the country for a year or two, the bone numbing tiredness of long shifts and the heart rending sense of failure and grief when they lose one, all are weighed against the status, the eventual financial benefit, and the joy of healing.

They are essentially altruistic, but everyone likes getting paid, and if you weigh a 7 yr training period, with the added benefit of literally having someone's life in your hands, you too would expect a certain level of payment. Docs have the highest rates of alcoholism, suicide, etc, it's a high pressure job.

 

Then some little melt comes along and says that more of the benefits of being a doctor will be watered down, and you'll receive a paycut masquerading as an increase - I'd strike. So would most of you.

[oowee]

I know it is difficult to accept, but doctors (and people in a handful of other professions) are unlike any other professionals. They are the best among us who sacrifice too much to serve others. They need to be recognised as such. This is why they strike at the moment. Because they are in the forefront of the fight to maintain quality and safety of care, and they see what is happening in front of their eyes. hunt himself has written a book saying the thinks the NHS should be privatised. I will insist. Despite what some say, this is NOT about pay. Do you really think the doctors are going to end up worse off in a privatised healthcare system? Perhaps you are unaware of how a doctor is paid in the NHS and what salary they get in private practice. Or perhaps how much locums are paid in order to fill in for the vacant medical posts. In a long weekend (three 12 hour shifts) a locum ST6 makes as much a 'regular' ST6 makes in three weeks.

I for one would not could not do what my daughter is doing in her training. The time and effort is immense. Even down time is often spent in learning study groups or discussion. The passion she shows to do medicine is something I don't understand. I have previously urged her to be a vet the patients don't complain, the hours are better and you get a Porsche as a company car.

[Vince Green]

An alternative way to look at this is that I am a self-employed ecologist, I make sure that wildlife and habitats are protected for all to enjoy.

 

If I go on strike no-one gives a ****.

 

Yet people who have sway (doctors, police, nurses, teachers, firemen) manage to get away with doing this because they know that they can get away with it and eventually the country will bow down.

 

I haven't had a pay rise in 6 years and have to work weekends, also when I am supposed to be on leave and don't complain.

 

They knew what they signed up for, circumstances change and if you don't like it move on and get another job.

 

No sympathy here!!

You are right, the problem I have with people like doctors and train drivers going on strike is they can only inflict harm on innocent people who cannot influence the issue they are striking over. That's not a strike in my opinion.

[Vince Green]

I for one would not could not do what my daughter is doing in her training. The time and effort is immense. Even down time is often spent in learning study groups or discussion. The passion she shows to do medicine is something I don't understand. I have previously urged her to be a vet the patients don't complain, the hours are better and you get a Porsche as a company car.

Its like dentists, my friend's daughter is a dentist and when she was doing her training in Liverpool I remember her saying that all her fellow students kept talking about was how much money they were going to make when they qualified.

 

I do admire the doctors, its not a job I would do or want to do. I have a lot of sympathy for them but not for the strike, they got that wrong in my opinion.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Vince Green

[rjimmer]

Nil by mouth because anything taken orally went into the airway causing choking or pneumonia . So, you put a tube up the nose into the stomach . Or you put one directly though the abdominal wall into the stomach . Strangely enough ,patients dislike this and tend to pull them out . As would I . Not as simple as you would like ey ? People always know better though we have devoted our lives to this torture . What do we know eh .

Clutching at straws with that. The chap wasn't connected to anything till the neighbour intervened. He was just being 'written off'.

[vole]

Clutching at straws with that. The chap wasn't connected to anything till the neighbour intervened. He was just being 'written off'.

Just what did you think they should be attached to and by what part of the anatomy ? I have heard of patients who failed brain death tests who went home . Well one . No need to clutch at straws here . Like football banter in the pub ,everyone else can do it better . Ever heard of the cancer patient being saved repeatedly from sudden cardiac death just to suffer a long drawn out death due to pressure from family ? We value input from relatives as they know them better than we ever will but the Sun ,with readers backing got rid of a whole care system due to misrepresentation and public scepticism .

Edited April 28, 2016 by vole

[rjimmer]

Just what did you think they should be attached to and by what part of the anatomy ? .

You mentioned feeding tubes. They weren't feeding him and he was begging for a drink.

[vole]

All I am saying is that if someone is unable to take fluids or solids by mouth, the alternatives are not well tolerated especially nasal tubes . If someones every mouthful goes into the lung then you have a difficult situation especially if they are conscious enough to ask for drinks . Dying people usually do not ask for drinks as much as want the mouth hydrating . In terminal care the hospices are the experts . They do not employ tubes up noses or needles in veins unless things have changed since I was there . Imho if someone at a very advanced stage of illness ,very elderly and frail with multiple organs affected that cannot drink or eat then it just might be their time to go and symptom control is the key . Us health workers also have families who live and die . We do not try to short change other people in need of care .

[UKPoacher]

You are right, the problem I have with people like doctors and train drivers going on strike is they can only inflict harm on innocent people who cannot influence the issue they are striking over. That's not a strike in my opinion.

So you are saying that anyone who works in a position where the public would be affected by their absence shouldn't be allowed to strike? That means anyone in those jobs can be shafted by their employers with no recourse to the actions those employed in different jobs are able to do. Doesn't seem fair to me.

[rjimmer]

All I am saying is that if someone is unable to take fluids or solids by mouth, the alternatives are not well tolerated especially nasal tubes . If someones every mouthful goes into the lung then you have a difficult situation especially if they are conscious enough to ask for drinks . Dying people usually do not ask for drinks as much as want the mouth hydrating . In terminal care the hospices are the experts . They do not employ tubes up noses or needles in veins unless things have changed since I was there . Imho if someone at a very advanced stage of illness ,very elderly and frail with multiple organs affected that cannot drink or eat then it just might be their time to go and symptom control is the key . Us health workers also have families who live and die . We do not try to short change other people in need of care .

This chap was not dying, he was out of hospital and driving his car two weeks later. 2 years later, he is still driving. Is your name Shipman?

[felly100]

This chap was not dying, he was out of hospital and driving his car two weeks later. 2 years later, he is still driving. Is your name Shipman?

LOL!

[Vince Green]

So you are saying that anyone who works in a position where the public would be affected by their absence shouldn't be allowed to strike? That means anyone in those jobs can be shafted by their employers with no recourse to the actions those employed in different jobs are able to do. Doesn't seem fair to me.

No , that's not what I said. But now you mention it, whoever said life was fair? Some professions just don't lend themselves to strike action

 

Striking is a way of hitting the employer. Shutting down a factory for example to lose production. The Doctors strike isn't even ruffling the government's feathers. The only people they are harming are the patients. Does that seem fair to you? Ask the people with cancer whose scans have been cancelled. The kids who missed their chemo. and blood transfusuions..

 

Anyway, the strike is unofficial, the BMA is not a trade union, Despite having balloted their members it was not done under the umbrella of trade union law. Silly kids playing politics in my opinion. If being given an 11% pay increase is your idea of being shafted then put me down for some shafting.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Vince Green