Receiving brass cases from America

[steve_b_wales]

Has anyone had cases from America, or knows if it's legal?

[wokkywokky]

Hello Steve. I travel to the US (Michigan) for business a few time a year. I always visit Firing Line where i have shot a number of different glocks, 357 and 44 magnums,.223 AR15. I always bring back my brass, but i will go through the"somthing to declare" line at customs. out of the 6 times i have come through customs 2 asked to see the brass. the majority of the time the conversation was 30 seconds to a minute with one officer interested to know more about me and what i wanted the brass for. My advice would be to put the brass in your check in luggage as it may arouse suspicion if in your hand luggage. One year I shot on the range the same day i was flying and i was nervous that an explosive test on me would turn out positive but the TSA offical said the machince tests for chemicals found in high explosives and nitrates.

[steve_b_wales]

Hello Steve. I travel to the US (Michigan) for business a few time a year. I always visit Firing Line where i have shot a number of different glocks, 357 and 44 magnums,.223 AR15. I always bring back my brass, but i will go through the"somthing to declare" line at customs. out of the 6 times i have come through customs 2 asked to see the brass. the majority of the time the conversation was 30 seconds to a minute with one officer interested to know more about me and what i wanted the brass for. My advice would be to put the brass in your check in luggage as it may arouse suspicion if in your hand luggage. One year I shot on the range the same day i was flying and i was nervous that an explosive test on me would turn out positive but the TSA offical said the machince tests for chemicals found in high explosives and nitrates.

Thanks. A friend of mine may be visiting the USA in August.

What about having brass posted to the UK?

[phaedra1106]

The problem isn't bringing them into the UK (Customs etc.) that's not a problem at all.

 

The problem is they are now (along with bullets) on the US ITAR list.

 

Without an export certificate taking or sending them outside of the US is an offence which at best would result in a warning and confiscation or at worst some serious jail time and a ban from returning to the US.

Edited May 29, 2016 by phaedra1106

[wokkywokky]

The problem isn't bringing them into the UK (Customs etc.) that's not a problem at all.

 

The problem is they are now (along with bullets) on the US ITAR list.

 

Without an export certificate taking or sending them outside of the US is an offence which at best would result in a warning and confiscation or at worst some serious jail time and a ban from returning to the US.

Which section of the ITAR does it state that spent shell casings are restricted?

[Graham M]

(1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.

(2) This category does not control cartridge and shell casings that, prior to export, have been rendered useless beyond the possibility of restoration for use as a cartridge or shell casing by means of heating, flame treatment, mangling, crushing, cutting or popping.

 

Anyone read gobbledygook. There are a couple of spelling mistakes in the text as well.

G

[spandit]

I've a feeling it might even be an offence to possess them in the USA if you're not a citizen. I'm in the US now as it happens but not going to bring any bullets back as not worth the risk for me

[oldfarmer]

A few years ago I bought some brass 14 bore shotgun cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company by post. No problem except I had to pay a small amount of import duty. The rules may have changed but I am sure an e-mail to RMC would clarify the situation.

The cases were turned form solid brass so would last forever.

John

[mick miller]

Well, much of firearm related stuff falls under ITAR, I cannot even order dies directly from the US, so I have no doubt that rifle brass is similarly verboten.

 

Your friend could post you some back, but there is a real risk of falling foul of the law. Worth the risk? Probably not.

 

Can't you just buy the brass here? Is the hassle really worth the small saving?

[phaedra1106]

Why can't you buy dies?, they aren't under ITAR?.

 

I frequently order dies and other stuff from Titan Reloading in Hartford, Wisconsin, they usually get here in 5 to 7 days.

Edited May 29, 2016 by phaedra1106

[mick miller]

It all depends if the company has sought the necessary licences to export parts outside the US. Many small companies, like those that make the tween dies for 17 hornet, don't have the permissions on place and it's not worth the effort, so often the blanket response is 'UK? er, sorry, no'.

[steve_b_wales]

Well, much of firearm related stuff falls under ITAR, I cannot even order dies directly from the US, so I have no doubt that rifle brass is similarly verboten.

 

Your friend could post you some back, but there is a real risk of falling foul of the law. Worth the risk? Probably not.

 

Can't you just buy the brass here? Is the hassle really worth the small saving?

I've just had two dies sent to me by my friend in the USA. If I want anything, he orders it, and then mails it on to me.

[mick miller]

Just checked TITAN RELOADING and they won't ship cases outside of the US either.

[steve_b_wales]

Just checked TITAN RELOADING and they won't ship cases outside of the US either.

I think I'll have to down the route of getting my friend in America to see if he can order some for me and send them over.

[saddler]

A few years ago I bought some brass 14 bore shotgun cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company by post. No problem except I had to pay a small amount of import duty. The rules may have changed but I am sure an e-mail to RMC would clarify the situation.

The cases were turned form solid brass so would last forever.

John

As can be seen above.....SHOTGUN CASES are EXEMPT from ITAR....so the only issue is finding a firm that will export them.

[activeviii]

Just checked TITAN RELOADING and they won't ship cases outside of the US either.

thats strange. my 6.5 creedmoor dies, shell holders, trimmers all came with no problem at all. $14 postage and here within 7 days

[saddler]

thats strange. my 6.5 creedmoor dies, shell holders, trimmers all came with no problem at all. $14 postage and here within 7 days

He said CASES

Titan WILL ship to the UK....but not anything ITAR restricted....like brass or bullets

[mick miller]

And a lot of smaller companies won't ship anything. It costs then an arm and leg to jump through the ITAR hoops for general export and, unless they're shipping a lot abroad it simply isn't worth it.

 

Then add into the mix the warnings a lot of these outfits have received, prison time, massive fines for flouting the legislation thanks to the Obama administration, most places simply won't ship to the UK at all.

 

Try, for instance, buying a rifle scope from optics warehouse (something that I had no problem doing years past).

 

The Bullbery die I wanted I got a quote for; $50 for the die, $15 for shipping, $560 for the necessary paperwork to go through ITAR approval for export to the UK.

 

Some companies, like Brownells, have gone through this process but can only ship to their nominated distributor in the UK. Items, as I understand it, will go from the US to the UK distributor and then onto your home.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be asking my pals in the US to ship anything that was restricted by ITAR, as they may not be so happy when they're handed the orange jumpsuit for flouting the export laws.

Edited May 30, 2016 by mick miller

[mick miller]

I forgot to say, try ordering a DIP rail for a CZ 527 direct from the makers and you'll be told, no, can't because of ITAR. But Kinneys will ship you one direct to the UK.

 

I suspect that the latter supplier is less aware of the legislation or willing to take the risk OR that they have secured some form of blanket exemption, or, perhaps, simply don't care?

Edited May 30, 2016 by mick miller

[steve_b_wales]

I've just had two dies sent to me from America, via my friend. He declared the contents at his post office, and they said, 'okay'. If he can send dies, I'm hoping that he can send new cases.

[mick miller]

I'm not sure of the rules Steve. Dies may be fine to ship to the UK, what I'm saying is that a lot of companies are sufficiently frightened by the penalties to simply not bother selling anything firearms related outside of the US.

 

Cases definitely fall foul of ITAR, it's in black and white, no arguments. He may well get away with it, but is it really worth the risk if he doesn't?

[steve_b_wales]

I'm not sure of the rules Steve. Dies may be fine to ship to the UK, what I'm saying is that a lot of companies are sufficiently frightened by the penalties to simply not bother selling anything firearms related outside of the US.

 

Cases definitely fall foul of ITAR, it's in black and white, no arguments. He may well get away with it, but is it really worth the risk if he doesn't?

I'll leave it to him to enquire. I know he won't try and send anything that's prohibited, and I wouldn't expect him too either.

Stupid laws though. What harm or danger can new cases cause.

[spandit]

You seem to be finding it difficult to comprehend that cases are restricted under ITAR regulations. Your friend can enquire until the cows come home but the law is not going to change in your favour whether you agree with it or not

Edited May 30, 2016 by spandit

[mick miller]

It is daft, especially considering that empty cases are, as you say, utterly inert. But the laws are the laws and since the change in administration they are strictly enforced. Sentencing is also a whole lot tougher in the US, I wouldn't be putting my American friends in that position if it were me.

 

Can you not just get these in the UK for just a little bit more? Or use an alternative make?

[saddler]

ITAR that applies to this thread: added colours for the hard of thinking....

"(1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.

(2) This category does not control cartridge and shell casings that, prior to export, have been rendered useless beyond the possibility of restoration for use as a cartridge or shell casing by means of heating, flame treatment, mangling, crushing, cutting or popping....

"

Anyone read gobbledygook. There are a couple of spelling mistakes in the text as well.

G

 

 

 

I've just had two dies sent to me from America, via my friend. He declared the contents at his post office, and they said, 'okay'. If he can send dies, I'm hoping that he can send new cases.

SEVERAL posts above would suggest NOT

 

I'm not sure of the rules Steve. Dies may be fine to ship to the UK, what I'm saying is that a lot of companies are sufficiently frightened by the penalties to simply not bother selling anything firearms related outside of the US.

 

Cases definitely fall foul of ITAR, it's in black and white, no arguments. He may well get away with it, but is it really worth the risk if he doesn't?

"RULES" cut & pasted above - as per their earlier appearance in this thread.

Dies ARE fine as they're NOT on the ITAR list.

 

INERT or not - the logic behind it is possibly that without a source of brass cases you cannot make ammunition = no ammo, no working firearm