A few dove pictures from Argentina

[Ron L]

 

I realize that these are not pigeons but I thought I would show you how many doves a father and son from North Carolina can shoot in 1 day when given the opportunity. This hunt occured 2 summers ago in Argentina where the typical dove roost has several million birds!

 

I shot 983 using a side by side with my son shooting over 1000 using a Benelli semi auto.

 

Enjoy!

 

Ron L

[LEFTY478]

Blimey! That's some bag! - Are shells cheap in Argentina?

 

I have family in your part of the world, Raleigh and Fayetteville, NC and Columbia, SC. I've not been over in awhile but used to get across every other year with my parents. You boys' sure do love your hunting & fishing, in the Caroliners.

 

 

 

Lefty.

[dead-eye]

wow what a bag

[missedagainstan]

I bet the drinking arm was bit sore for a while

 

 

what happens to the shot doves ?

[ShaggyRS6]

Did you have a M16?

[Ron L]

The shells are not cheap as we paid $8.00/box. Shooting 40 boxes/day can begin to hurt by the third day!

 

The hunts are relatively cheap. We are going back this July for 4.5 days of shooting which includes 3 dove hunts, 3 pigeon hunts, and 3 rough hunts for perdiz over pointing dogs. Total cost is $1050 US which includes all food, lodging, drinks, etc. The outfitter is promising realistic numbers of 1000 dove/day, 500 pigeon/day, and 30 perdiz/day. I have never shot more than 100 pigeons/day so I am looking forward to trying to shoot 500 in one day. They pass shoot their pigeons but I am planning on bringing some decoys with to experiment with.

 

I know that this is a wingshooting forum but this is a wild boar that we killed using a knife when we were wingshooting in Argentina 2 years ago. It is a very exciting way of getting up close and personal with your quarry. It is not recommended for the faint of heart!

 

 

Ron L

[Frank]

A wild bore with a knife??

 

Do you eat all them doves ect?

 

Frank.

[Dunkield]

'Pig sticking' it is popular in New Zealand I believe - nutty sport

[JohnGalway]

'Pig sticking' it is popular in New Zealand I believe - nutty sport

 

I believe it's origins rest in living at the bottom of the world, where all the blood rushes to your head

 

Big knife in fairness.

[Paul in North Lincs.]

Excelent pictures

 

1983 birds in one day ........lets say a average of devided by 12 hours................= 165.25 birds every hour........devide by 60 minutes = 2.75 birds every minute mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm B)

 

not saying your telling porkies..............but thats one hell of a bag to shoot in one day buddy

[Highlander]

This is not a knock (just me being serious for a change) as I’ve done something similar in SA but I always wonder when I see bags like this how long it might last. I know everyone involved talks about the huge numbers (many millions) of birds that are about and probably (judging by the publicity) millions shot each year BUT is it sustainable??? Remember the (now extinct) Passenger Pigeon! It wasn’t realised (as usual until it was too late) that they needed huge numbers to breed successfully and when so many had been shot the remainder simply died out! Such things might have been acceptable in days gone by but in today’s world where most humans (certainly the western living) have lost the hunting instinct and gone PC we shooters are in the minority and IMO should be seen to be responsible about our sports.

 

I remember some time back listening to an interview on the radio with Raoul Millais who recounted his experiences travelling the world on safaris with his father/grandfather John Millais one of our great hunter/explorers back in the days of the British Raj. One of his deepest regrets was; he now believed his father/grandfather had, whilst shooting in Namibia, shot the last of some antelope species (the name of which escapes me at the moment) not knowing he was contributing to it’s extinction. How sad is that!

[missedagainstan]

what happens to the shot doves ?

 

 

anyone?

[dazza]

 

 

 

what happens to the shot doves ?

 

 

anyone?

 

probably dumped

[Ron L]

Excelent pictures B)

 

1983 birds in one day ........lets say a average of devided by 12 hours................= 165.25 birds every hour........devide by 60 minutes = 2.75 birds every minute mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

not saying your telling porkies..............but thats one hell of a bag to shoot in one day buddy

 

Paul

 

It is hard to believe but it is true. Your calculations were pretty close to the truth except there were 2 hunter on this day.

 

With this volume of shooting, I can only shoot 6 hours a day before I am just too fatigued to shoot well. We shoot 3 hours in the morning, have a nice lunch in the field followed by a siesta, and then shoot 3 hours in the afternoon. We can easily have 1 shot every 15 seconds as there are multiple targets. 2/3rds of the time I hit the bird. My son is a little better. This works out to 240 shells per hour or 160 birds per hour for each hunter.

 

6 hours x 160 birds/hour x 2 hunters = 1920 birds between the 2 of us in one day.

 

I have friend who has shot 2200 shells and killed 1500 birds himself in 1 day just this last Feb. He was using 2 semiauto Benellis with magazine extensions (7 shots) with 2 bird boys loading guns for him.

 

I prepurchase 1000 shells/day for every day that I am planning on dove hunting. All of this is hard to believe but very much the truth. If you try this with a single gun, it gets so hot that it will burn you. Gloves are mandatory. My side by side has gotten so hot that it would no longer open.

 

Here is a picture of hunter whose gun did not fit him well. This is after the second day of shooting doves.

 

 

The flocks of doves are literally millions of birds which breed 2-3 times per year with several chicks in each nest. The chicks are breeding within 9 months of being hatched. To watch them leave the roost is a constant stream of birds for about 3 hours.

 

Use "GOOGLE" and do a search for Argentina dove hunting. You will see that I am not joking about the volume of birds.

 

Ron L

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not a knock (just me being serious for a change) as I’ve done something similar in SA but I always wonder when I see bags like this how long it might last. I know everyone involved talks about the huge numbers (many millions) of birds that are about and probably (judging by the publicity) millions shot each year BUT is it sustainable??? Remember the (now extinct) Passenger Pigeon! It wasn’t realised (as usual until it was too late) that they needed huge numbers to breed successfully and when so many had been shot the remainder simply died out! Such things might have been acceptable in days gone by but in today’s world where most humans (certainly the western living) have lost the hunting instinct and gone PC we shooters are in the minority and IMO should be seen to be responsible about our sports.

 

I remember some time back listening to an interview on the radio with Raoul Millais who recounted his experiences travelling the world on safaris with his father/grandfather John Millais one of our great hunter/explorers back in the days of the British Raj. One of his deepest regrets was; he now believed his father/grandfather had, whilst shooting in Namibia, shot the last of some antelope species (the name of which escapes me at the moment) not knowing he was contributing to it’s extinction. How sad is that!

 

Highlander

 

I have copied this from one of the outfitters in Argentina that I have shot with.

 

FEW WORDS TO THE CONCERNED

 

I can understand that some people would feel bad that millions of birds are being shot by sport hunters every year in Argentina. I understand because I realize that it is their nature and their instinct. I hunt for the same reasons, because it is in my nature and instinct. Let me however put into perspective the impact on dove as a species without entering into the morality of the thing. Morality is in large part a product of the culture we are raised in you know.

In Argentina there is no season on dove and no limit to how much you can shoot. There is a reason for this. The number of dove and the rate at which they reproduce is such that they pose a serious threat to the livelihood of many people. When they descend on a grain crop they will destroy around 50% of that crop. This understandably upsets the farmers who before the dove shooting industry flourished, would poison the roosts where the doves live and breed. The goal of the farmers was complete eradication of the dove. The poisoning of a large roost resulted in the killing of several million birds and the poison runoff would affect a great many other species. Since the dove shooting industry flourished in Cordoba, mass poisoning has stopped. The farmers recognize in the dove a viable source of income. A lease on a good dove roost costs what an average argentine worker makes in a year, and that is just for the shooting rights. An entire year of dove shooting by the estimated 4000 shooters who come here will kill less birds than the poisoning of just 4 roosts. In addition many major dove roosts are being saved from destruction by the dove lodge operators themselves, who purchase them, thus avoiding the cutting down of the trees and clearing of the land for agricultural use. When the dove lose their habitat they will be no more. There are easily over 300,000,000 dove in Cordoba. They nest 2 to 3 times a year and lay 2-3 eggs each time. The only real danger to them is the destruction of their habitat and poisoning. It is impossible to endanger them as a species by means of recreational hunting. As has happened many times before with many other species, recreational hunting is in fact saving them. Another factor to take into consideration is the spread of diseases in which the birds act as a vector of transmission to humans. The explosion in bird populations that results when the dove have large tracts of agricultural land to feed on, puts the human population in danger of diseases like some forms of encephalitis and flu, both quite deadly to humans. Control is a necesity, not an option.

 

 

 

 

 

what happens to the shot doves ?

 

 

anyone?

 

probably dumped

 

Dazza

 

Everytime we shot, the doves were picked up, bagged, and taken to the local towns and given away. The local people can not afford to pay for shotguns and shells. I am told that the meat is given to school, orphanages, nursing home for the elderly, and anyone that might want some.

 

I guess that they could just be dumping them but they sure go through a lot of work at the end of every shoot collecting the birds.

 

Ron L

[new to the flock]

Nice bag Ron and well shot. Have the laws on taking your own gun, or is it stil easier just to use the outfitters? I know 5 years ago it was almost impossible to get your own into the country.

 

Did you use catch dogs on the pig?

 

NTTF

[Highlander]

Thanks Ron a very interesting summing up and one I'll use (by changing the doves to pigeons) next time anyone gives me grief about the 1000's of Woodys I shoot each year!

 

In SA when we shoot pigeons/doves the local kids (barefooted and rags) do all the picking up 'cause trained dogs are too expensive to lose to snake bites and at the days end they get to keep all the birds. You should see the scramble, 40 odd kids fighting over a couple of 1000 birds and they're gone in seconds. I'm told it's about the only meat they get to eat.

[webber]

Just wondered if any PW members have been out to Argentina on the doves, and if so, could they highlight any potential pitfalls, and indicate the appeoximate cost?

 

webber

[Ron L]

Nice bag Ron and well shot. Have the laws on taking your own gun, or is it stil easier just to use the outfitters? I know 5 years ago it was almost impossible to get your own into the country.

 

Did you use catch dogs on the pig?

 

NTTF

 

NTTF

 

I have gone to Argentina and Uruguay 5 times in the last 3 years. Each time I have taken my own guns with very little difficulty. It is a 1 page form that you have to have filled out in triplicate. Unfortunately, each year they want to chargemore money and I just found out that this year it is $100US per gun.

 

Yes, the pig sticking was done with catch dogs (Argentinian dogos) which were very good at their jobs.

 

Ron L

 

 

 

Thanks Ron a very interesting summing up and one I'll use (by changing the doves to pigeons) next time anyone gives me grief about the 1000's of Woodys I shoot each year!

 

In SA when we shoot pigeons/doves the local kids (barefooted and rags) do all the picking up 'cause trained dogs are too expensive to lose to snake bites and at the days end they get to keep all the birds. You should see the scramble, 40 odd kids fighting over a couple of 1000 birds and they're gone in seconds. I'm told it's about the only meat they get to eat.

Highlander

 

I would be interested in learning more about your pigeon/dove shooting in SA ( assuming that you mean Sout Africa rather than South America). I am interested in a wingshooting trip in South Africa along with some game viewing and fishing. Could we talk by private email?

 

Thanks

 

Ron L

[24230]

The shells are not cheap as we paid $8.00/box. Shooting 40 boxes/day can begin to hurt by the third day!

 

The hunts are relatively cheap. We are going back this July for 4.5 days of shooting which includes 3 dove hunts, 3 pigeon hunts, and 3 rough hunts for perdiz over pointing dogs. Total cost is $1050 US which includes all food, lodging, drinks, etc. The outfitter is promising realistic numbers of 1000 dove/day, 500 pigeon/day, and 30 perdiz/day. I have never shot more than 100 pigeons/day so I am looking forward to trying to shoot 500 in one day. They pass shoot their pigeons but I am planning on bringing some decoys with to experiment with.

 

I know that this is a wingshooting forum but this is a wild boar that we killed using a knife when we were wingshooting in Argentina 2 years ago. It is a very exciting way of getting up close and personal with your quarry. It is not recommended for the faint of heart!

 

 

Ron L

 

 

The shells are not cheap as we paid $8.00/box. Shooting 40 boxes/day can begin to hurt by the third day!

 

The hunts are relatively cheap. We are going back this July for 4.5 days of shooting which includes 3 dove hunts, 3 pigeon hunts, and 3 rough hunts for perdiz over pointing dogs. Total cost is $1050 US which includes all food, lodging, drinks, etc. The outfitter is promising realistic numbers of 1000 dove/day, 500 pigeon/day, and 30 perdiz/day. I have never shot more than 100 pigeons/day so I am looking forward to trying to shoot 500 in one day. They pass shoot their pigeons but I am planning on bringing some decoys with to experiment with.

 

I know that this is a wingshooting forum but this is a wild boar that we killed using a knife when we were wingshooting in Argentina 2 years ago. It is a very exciting way of getting up close and personal with your quarry. It is not recommended for the faint of heart!

 

 

Ron L