Are The French Coming?

[wymberley]

We know what happened to the UK gun manufacturing base some 70 to 80 years ago because they weren't paying attention to what the foreign opposition were doing. Now, it might just be the turn of the Spaniards and Italians, with the possible exception of their basic range models.

I hadn't heard about Chapuis until recently and since then I haven't found a bad review or adverse comment. Consequently, I have one on order from towards the bottom end of their range. I've just got back from collecting a set of barrels which I've had opened out and while at the 'smith's saw a matched pair of Artisan OUs. OK, the owner hand picked the wood which is out of this world, he's had extensive personal engraving done - his dogs - and because they were a 70th birthday present from his family, his initials and '70' are in gold on a P of W grip silver cap plate. With the possible exception of a master gunsmith, I would defy anyone to pick them out if they were laid beside a pair of Purdeys, Boss or Holland and Holland. The only thing I can't answer for would be their comparable longevity. The price? £22,000. OK, a tad rich for most of we plebs, but the more basic versions are not so and I can't help feel that given time (and not too long at that) the mid range products from the two countries named are going to feel the pinch in no uncertain terms.

[JohnfromUK]

I have a French Darne. Although beautifully engineered (mine is a high grade, but all are well made), they are very much an acquired taste to shoot; featherlight, ultra fast - and kicks like a mule! The Baby Breton was even lighter, but I thought rather crudely made

[wymberley]

I have a French Darne. Although beautifully engineered (mine is a high grade, but all are well made), they are very much an acquired taste to shoot; featherlight, ultra fast - and kicks like a mule! The Baby Breton was even lighter, but I thought rather crudely made

I take your point - I've ordered 26" barrels, SHS, double triggers and fixed 1/4 by 3/4 choke and it will probably come in a tad heavier than the Darne but there may not be much in it - but I already shoot an AYA XXV boxlock.

[JohnfromUK]

I take your point - I've ordered 26" barrels, SHS, double triggers and fixed 1/4 by 3/4 choke and it will probably come in a tad heavier than the Darne but there may not be much in it - but I already shoot an AYA XXV boxlock.

My Darne comes in a just under 6 lbs for a 12 with 27" barrels, but the weight is VERY central (barrels have no bottom rib and stock very 'slim'). Gives a handling that feels fantastic in the shop ...... but is very tricky in the field. Summed up by a gunmaker friend who said "I'd love to carry that all day ...... on a day when nothing comes my way". Darnes - with their unusual sliding breech construction are a really interesting gun, but not easy to shoot well. I do love mine, but I rarely shoot it, even with 21g it is still VERY lively!

Mine is shown here http://www.losgi.com/darne-v21.html with photos by Matthew Brown, to whom I lent it for photography.

Edited February 9, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[bruno22rf]

OMG, John....that's stunning,(might be easier to shoot in 16g?) but, personally speaking, that could kick me all day long.

[Westley]

My Darne comes in a just under 6 lbs for a 12 with 27" barrels, but the weight is VERY central (barrels have no bottom rib and stock very 'slim'). Gives a handling that feels fantastic in the shop ...... but is very tricky in the field. Summed up by a gunmaker friend who said "I'd love to carry that all day ...... on a day when nothing comes my way". Darnes - with their unusual sliding breech construction are a really interesting gun, but not easy to shoot well. I do love mine, but I rarely shoot it, even with 21g it is still VERY lively!

Mine is shown here http://www.losgi.com/darne-v21.html with photos by Matthew Brown, to whom I lent it for photography.

 

I do hope it never breaks down ! I had a trigger problem develop on my Darne. Firstly, I could not find a Gunsmith that would even look at it, but after many phone calls to a lot of Gunsmiths (including some top names), I ended up with a shop in Cheshire with a Gunsmith on site. Suffice it to say that I was 'ripped off' to the tune of some £300 for the repairs and a new part that had to be made. After much argument, I paid and left. I kept the gun for a short while after, but I was never happy with the trigger pulls, so it went.

[JohnfromUK]

 

I do hope it never breaks down ! I had a trigger problem develop on my Darne. Firstly, I could not find a Gunsmith that would even look at it, but after many phone calls to a lot of Gunsmiths (including some top names), I ended up with a shop in Cheshire with a Gunsmith on site. Suffice it to say that I was 'ripped off' to the tune of some £300 for the repairs and a new part that had to be made. After much argument, I paid and left. I kept the gun for a short while after, but I was never happy with the trigger pulls, so it went.

I did have a little work done by William Powell many years ago, but stock extension and dent raising (it was in a bit of a 'state' when I bought it). Trigger pulls are not very good, but I understand that it is very hard to get them right ....... so I have left alone. To be honest, I bought it more because I admired the engineering rather than intending to use it regularly, but I do shoot it occasionally at clays.

[JohnfromUK]

OMG, John....that's stunning,(might be easier to shoot in 16g?) but, personally speaking, that could kick me all day long.

I agree, it looks fantastic, has beguilingly 'magic wand' handling ........ but in reality is no fun to use after the novelty wears off. My AyA sidelock is a MUCH nicer gun to actually use ......

[nagantino]

It's a beautiful piece though. Never mind the French Coming, some of the Turkish stuff is amazing. We tend to see only the lower end of their output but they have a hell of a gun industry. What happened to the British gun industry??

[Delwint]

What a stunning piece of craftmanship, I am extremely envious!!

[wymberley]

That is truly superb.

The Italians do fashion very well, but you can't beat the French for style.

[Brodie]

The French coming?

Verney Caron seem to have been and gone already.

[JohnfromUK]

Apart from the rather eccentric Darne (and the 'son of Darne' called Breuget), there was a fine maker called Granger (or possibly Grainger?) who made lovely conventional sidelocks.

[wymberley]

The French coming?

Verney Caron seem to have been and gone already.

Yep, and not bad guns either but this current outfit seems decidedly more determined.

[Old Boggy]

OMG, John....that's stunning,(might be easier to shoot in 16g?) but, personally speaking, that could kick me all day long.

A pal of mine has a Darne 16 and whilst it is not the top of the range as the one illustrated is a fine piece of engineering. It is light but having shot it a few times didn't think that the recoil was excessive. I was given to understand that due to the sliding breech, the headspace between breech and cartridge was either nil or minimal and so reducing felt recoil. No doubt others more au fait with the law of physics will dispute this.

The only problem appeared to be if the stock requires alteration. My pal, like myself, shoots from the left shoulder and tried to get the stock cast on with very little success from the few gunsmiths that he tried. The problem seems to be that unlike a conventional SxS boxlock or even an O/U with a stock bolt, the Darne has a coach screw from the breech end going back into the stock, making any alteration pretty nigh impossible. Unless of course someone on here knows differently.

The Darne is definitely an acquired taste and once loading/unloading is mastered can be quite easy to use.

I think, however, that I will stick to my standard English 16 bore SxS non ejector, far less to go wrong and a joy to use.

 

OB

[joe soapy]

A pal of mine has a Darne 16 and whilst it is not the top of the range as the one illustrated is a fine piece of engineering. It is light but having shot it a few times didn't think that the recoil was excessive. I was given to understand that due to the sliding breech, the headspace between breech and cartridge was either nil or minimal and so reducing felt recoil. No doubt others more au fait with the law of physics will dispute this.

The only problem appeared to be if the stock requires alteration. My pal, like myself, shoots from the left shoulder and tried to get the stock cast on with very little success from the few gunsmiths that he tried. The problem seems to be that unlike a conventional SxS boxlock or even an O/U with a stock bolt, the Darne has a coach screw from the breech end going back into the stock, making any alteration pretty nigh impossible. Unless of course someone on here knows differently.

The Darne is definitely an acquired taste and once loading/unloading is mastered can be quite easy to use.

I think, however, that I will stick to my standard English 16 bore SxS non ejector, far less to go wrong and a joy to use.

 

OB

Years ago, a gunsmith in a london shop that sold Darne guns said the felt recoil mainly came from the cartridge moving in the chamber, the sliding breach stopped this. Have since read thad a hard kicking gun can be tamed by putting paper spacers on the face of the cartridge

[JohnfromUK]

Years ago, a gunsmith in a london shop that sold Darne guns said the felt recoil mainly came from the cartridge moving in the chamber, the sliding breach stopped this. Have since read thad a hard kicking gun can be tamed by putting paper spacers on the face of the cartridge

I think that this is certainly correct - to an extent. In the case of my Darne, I think that the high 'experienced' recoil (despite using light 3/4 oz loads) is due to several reasons;

1. There is no doubt that it is a light gun (a whisker under 6 lbs) for a 12 bore
2. The barrels are particularly light (no lower rib and a little shorter), so the recoil includes more upwards 'flip' than my English and Spanish s/ss
3. The stock isn't the best fit to me (and as others have pointed out, gunsmiths are reluctant to work on these guns)
4. The length of pull (measured from the front trigger to the centre of the butt of the stock) is about right for me (approx 14 1/2") ....... but the triggers are set well forward with respect to the chamber.standing breech. I think this also contributes to greater 'upwards flip' because the recoil energy is imparted further back and less 'in line' with the stock.

Overall, it is a mechanical and engineering 'tour de force', but I don't find it a pleasant gun to use. A number of friends have tried it - and the overall impression is of a 'very lively recoil'. I have an English s/s with the same overall length of pull - and about 4 oz heavier and only 1" extra barrel length - and it is MUCH tamer on recoil and has MUCH less barrel flip and it is very pleasant to shoot with suitable (i.e. light) loads.