CelticHawk Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi all anyone got a picture or a copy of a shooting log or dairy I could look at to use why I am under a mentor ? Also can I use his gun while with him until I get my own? Welcome feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 What does your fac state under the conditions. Your feo should have explained all of this to you. Under Durham where I'm from you would have no problem using your mentors gun to gain experience but other forces differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 In law there is no such thing as a mentor. This is a police invention. The rules of gun ownership and 'lending' still apply as normal with no exceptions for mentors. Be very careful of this one. Police are moving responsibility on to someone else. (As usual). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 In law there is no such thing as a mentor. This is a police invention. The rules of gun ownership and 'lending' still apply as normal with no exceptions for mentors. Be very careful of this one. Police are moving responsibility on to someone else. (As usual). This mentoring is non existent. What force is asking for you to have a mentor? No one is qualified as a mentor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticHawk Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thanks for the replays nothing on my Fac only when hire or lending that the conditions must apply. I am stuck with these conditions tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I take it that you are based in Wales buddy, whereabouts? Dyfed Powys like putting Mentoring conditions on Centerfire rifles as I have 2 mates with such conditions and I act as their mentor. It is sometimes easier to put up with it rather then kick up a fuss despite the fact that it is totally wrong in my opinion and I have told more then 1 person in Dyfed Powys Firearms team this. No need to record outings as its down to the mentor to send a letter in confirming that they are happy for the person they are mentoring to have the condition taken off. You can use your mentors firearms under his supervision as long as all conditions on their licence are adhered to. The BASC gave guidance on this as it falls under Section 16 (1) of the Firearms Amendment Act 1988). I am sure that this will be a point for debate but the 2 FEOs I have spoken to have no issues with this. I have an open FAC and shoot on a lot of land that isnt cleared. In fact 1 FEO phoned me an asked me to mentor one guy since I had an open ticket and a few rifles so he knew the guy would get some good experience coming out with me...lots of abuse mind you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticHawk Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Hi and thanks, South Wales you right the last person was great that I spoke to and said the mentor can be removed after six months so don't see the point of upsetting anyone just had set back with the financials so it be while before I can have the resources to buy my own. So was thinking buy amo and use the mentors with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) And what are the orgs doing about this on a practical level? Nothing. Plod is just shifting the potential liability to someone else. So if you have a mentor for say six months and that mentor writes in and states that they consider xyz to be experienced enough to have the condition removed and the next time that you go out on your own an have an incident, how does that reflect on the mentors suitability to be a FAC holder. I have been asked by a force if I would Supervise one of the son in laws with the 243 & 308 which he hasn't got (son in law bought a new house and doesn't have the cash available to splash out on a couple of new toys on a whim). but he is ok To go out on his own with the 22rf and the 17hmr. Have a read through this lot >>>. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/339404-mentoring/?hl=mentoring Edited February 25, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) My major concern with mentoring is,what happens if the guy you mentor somewhere down the line does an 'Atherton'? Quite worrying if a none qualified instructor has signed a letter.We will possibly see DS1/DS2 or something similar become compulsory in the very near future.Seeing some shooting organisations have an interest in this I can't see them opposing it if it does. Edited February 25, 2017 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) What is the reason for having a mentor? To get cf? Non restricted ticket? I had to do a cf awareness course to get my cfs. And now havr yo have 3 years shooting them until unrestricted ticket. Been shooting since I was about 10yrs old but got no proof on paper etc. Edited February 25, 2017 by ShootingEgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I sort of agree with the mentor, some people need it and I personally think it should be law that some training is given but there we have it, we are all untitled to an opinion. It's up to the mentor to word the letter in such a way as to remove the blame. Saying he believes the person he has been mentoring, in his untrained opinion, is safe to proceed in his own manner. But hold no formal training him self to be held liable for any short comings on this made up mentoring condition imposed on by local authority You need to cover your self and put any blame back on to the police authority. You can't drive a car on road without some training and a test, I personally do believe some people really do need educating before they are allowed to walk a field, or wood, in pitch black of night and pull the trigger on a rather power rifle. But I do not believe in mentoring. It then we end up with people cashing in on the whole training thing and it become a licence to print money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I sort of agree with the mentor, some people need it and I personally think it should be law that some training is given but there we have it, we are all untitled to an opinion. How would you regulate this? I currently have cf and I go out with a mate whos been using cf for 15 years or more, and has stalked all over the world. This is by choice as i want the experience and knowledge to help me. My local force has said the i need to log my shooting so that i can get unrestricted ticket. There is nothing stopping me logging three nights a week over a year or so on a spreadsheet, handing it into them and getting my ticket un restricted. But and it is a big one... I dont go out three times a week. And they dont know this.. so I could make up a completely false shooting log with a mentor.. Its the same for cf course's. The person doing the course has the means of printing out the paperwork. Doesn't mean the holder of the certificate has done the Course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I have to right these sorts of letters quite regularly either for SGC or FAC now you need to explain what you have covered with the individual (easier for guys that only have one person hard when you see lots of clients each day). However this is always caviated that they where in my opinion safe at the time I saw them. It's a little like an MOT at that moment the car was road worth it's not saying it is all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I have to right these sorts of letters quite regularly either for SGC or FAC now you need to explain what you have covered with the individual (easier for guys that only have one person hard when you see lots of clients each day). However this is always caviated that they where in my opinion safe at the time I saw them. It's a little like an MOT at that moment the car was road worth it's not saying it is all year. Why are you doing this and legitimising a non legal requirement? what qualifications do you have for this or is it just a nice little earner? But it's all a load of nonsense. The orgs should be challenging this. The son in law was told that he had to do a firearms awareness course and he was advised to contact this bloke. when he did so it turns out that this bloke had a certificate in tree management or similar. So how does that qualify him to give a firearms awareness course? in the event he was supposed to be supported by basc and was charging £125 for this day course but he wasn't running any for some time. All of this is absolute rubbish and a rip off. in the end they asked me if I would supervise him but only with the 243 & 308 which he has never bought as of yet due to buying a new house and not having the finance available for new toys. but the 22 & 17hmr no probs go out and shoot as you please. now if that makes sense than there's a man on the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm a professional shooting instructor who teaches both shotgun and rifle shooting I run stalking courses as well. So if someone has received lessons training imho why should they pay to do a course if the lessons theyve had will demonstrate what's required. Theirs no charge unlike a gp it only takes me a few moments to write a letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 That’s fair do's and you know what you are talking about. Now as far as me goes. They asked me to " Supervise" him. They don’t know anything about me apart from the fact that I have held an sgc since I was at school in 1968 and a Fac since 1980. I shoot a lot and have cals from 22lr up to large cf and have had them for a long time. As far as they were concerned that was more than enough. But I could be the most reckless lunatic out there. I totally understand the need for training to understand the potential for a big whoopsie with any gun but as far as I can see there are a lot of very misguided wannabie do gooders advocating pigeon shooting courses and frightened of their own shadow types that are never going to get the most out of shooting because they are too worried about what choke, barrel length, cartridge, shot size, how to clean it, what to clean it with, how to oil the wood and which way to point it and hold it. The list is so long that the end of the day has come and it is too late to go shooting now so they’d better wipe it down with a bore snake or something and put it back in the cabinet. Still I suppose they are helping to keep the rfd’s in business and a supply of s/h guns available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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