Grange1905 Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Good day, Yes, I know this is a boring topic for most of you, as you can find a lot of similar questions in every forum, but here comes mine: I want to apply for my SGC, and only want to get 1 shotgun for clays. I checked with my FEO and he confirmed that a sucurity cord or clamp would be sufficient for one gun. The problem I face is that I live in a rented new built property and all of my walls are "hollow". I can't drill in to the floor, as it is wooden and I can't afford to ruin it. Is there a way I could properly fix the clamp without causing damage that I couldn't repair? If the clamp option fails, I will try and ask my friend to store my shotgun for me. In this scenario I would like to know what is the law regarding the time the gun spends outside the cabinet? If I get my gun from my friends cabinet on a Friday, when does it have to go back? Could I have it at my house for a couple of nights rather than bringing it back every night? I appreciate all advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Do you have access to the loft? What is the actual construction? A clamp is no easier to fit still needs securing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I should have mentioned I live in a flat. Basically a townhouse where the groundfloor is one flat and the first floor is another one. I'm aware of the securing of the clamp, but it would be easier than a cabinet, mainly due to the fact I don't fancy cutting up solid oak skirting boards. I believe the actual construction of the building to be brick, stud wall and then plasterboard. As far as I am aware fixing the clamp in to the stud wouldn't be sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 i would think if you pick up the gun on a friday, it would have to go back the same night, because you cant secure it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 How deep is the cavity? Between the front edge of the board and the brick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 If you are going to go to the effort for a clamp you may as well go for a cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 i would think if you pick up the gun on a friday, it would have to go back the same night, because you cant secure it, Agreed, there is the 72hr borrow a gun rule but it still has to be secured no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) Mossy - The thing that got me thinking is what about people traveling to a shoot accross the country and staying in hotels?The 72 hour rule only applies that you don't have to enter that shotgun to your SGC. Lord V - don't get me wrong, I would much more prefer a cabinet, which wouldn't restrict me to owning one gun, but as mentioned before, I can't fix it to the floor, and even have it standing on the floor due to the oak skirting boards. I believe the bricks are about 8 inches (200mm) beyond the face of the wall. Edited February 25, 2017 by Grange1905 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Lift floor board, secure clap to side of joist under board, put board back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Mossy - The thing that got me thinking is what about people traveling to a shoot accross the country and staying in hotels? The 72 hour rule only applies that you don't have to enter that shotgun to your SGC. Lord V - don't get me wrong, I would much more prefer a cabinet, which wouldn't restrict me to owning one gun, but as mentioned before, I can't fix it to the floor, and even have it standing on the floor due to the oak skirting boards. I believe the bricks are about 8 inches (200mm) beyond the face of the wall. I built a small plinth for mine to lift above the skirting and help supporting it without cutting into the skirting. Long threaded rod in through the cavity and resin in place. May need to strengthen the plaster board behind the cabinet but it should be easy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) How ever you fix cabinet you need to fix the clamp the same way...... there will be a fixing method and you will need to make good just get a cabinet and be done with clamps are like hens teeth anyway and won't work with all guns Edited February 25, 2017 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) I had one of the clamps a few years ago was useless and didn't fit the gun I had properly. As previously mentioned it still required securing properly same as a cabinet. To be honest if you can't provide proper security you may have to consider storing your gun at a club? Alternatively the floor sounds like the best option it's either going to be solid or suspended either way you can get a good purchase to bolt a small cabinet.. Edited February 26, 2017 by Wingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilksy II Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 If the void between original wall and platerboard is 200mm that's the depth of some cabinets you could draw round it cut the plasterboard bolt to the brick and have a flush fitting cabinet, like said above the skirting even a bit of architrave around the edge to tidy it up, fao would like it as no way to jemmy it of the wall, and should you move in the future not a massive job to put it back as it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I appreciate all of you advice, but still not overly keen on smashing up the property.Another suggestion I had from my FEO is a securicord. http://www.roxtons.co.uk/securicord.htmlI have a walk in wardrobe, where I could remove a piece of flooring and bolt it to the concrete as WB123 suggested. If the FEO won't be satisfied, my cousin agreed for me to install a cabinet at his place. Is that a valid option, considering he isn't a SGC holder? (obviously only I will hold the keys) And also, with having the gun out of a cabinet - I know a few folk that travel from West Midlands up to Scotland for some grouse every year - what is the law with that situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Take reasonable steps to secure it. For example stock in the car, barrels in a case chained to the radiator or something along those lines. Or its possible that the hotel they stay in has proper gun storage facilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I appreciate all of you advice, but still not overly keen on smashing up the property. Another suggestion I had from my FEO is a securicord. http://www.roxtons.co.uk/securicord.html I have a walk in wardrobe, where I could remove a piece of flooring and bolt it to the concrete as WB123 suggested. If the FEO won't be satisfied, my cousin agreed for me to install a cabinet at his place. Is that a valid option, considering he isn't a SGC holder? (obviously only I will hold the keys) And also, with having the gun out of a cabinet - I know a few folk that travel from West Midlands up to Scotland for some grouse every year - what is the law with that situation? Unless I'm missing something you could have that off the wall in less than a minute with a screw driver and hammer. Those screws look pretty pathetic. I'm a little surprised an feo would recomend that. I understand you don't want to 'smash up' your property, but the installation of a clamp or cabinet will involve a little diy and drilling. Honestly, recessing it into the wall is a neat idea and not hard to do. Easy enough to fix up when you leave. If your cousin isn't a cert holder I can't see the feo being mad keen on that idea. Because it's in a different location to your house but not at the ground I would have said it's quite likely the gun will spend the majority of its time in a slip or case in your house, and that just won't cut the mustard. Storage should be accessible so that it is actually used, feos dislike lofts for this reason. I can't second guess what your feo will say, but I would have said this isn't a great idea. I also wouldn't be happy relying on someone else's security to protect my guns. When travelling you have to take reasonable steps to secure the gun. Lockable cases, breaking down the gun and storing parts separately are some of the usual methods. In the wardrobe, bolted to the concrete is the best suggestion yet imo... I would strongly suggest you read the home office guidance on the subject. It's not necessary for the security to be installed prior to your visit, so any doubts just ask your feo when he comes. He will be the one signing it off anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog1408 Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think that you have to take the responsibility of gun ownership seriously, chop the wall and install a cabinet and lump the repair costs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 In regards to FEO disliking the security arangement at another address - his suggestion was to keep my gun in a fellow certificate holders cabinet. -'The best sulution would be for a friend who has a shotgun certificate to store your shotgun in their cabinet.' My cousin lives about 10 minutes away, semi detached property fitted with an alarm and 2 very large and well trained german shepherds. Also, would be a great opportunity to see my nephew more often. I'll try to get in touch with my landlord to see where he stands with me installing a cabinet at my property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 In regards to FEO disliking the security arangement at another address - his suggestion was to keep my gun in a fellow certificate holders cabinet. -'The best sulution would be for a friend who has a shotgun certificate to store your shotgun in their cabinet.' My cousin lives about 10 minutes away, semi detached property fitted with an alarm and 2 very large and well trained german shepherds. Also, would be a great opportunity to see my nephew more often. I'll try to get in touch with my landlord to see where he stands with me installing a cabinet at my property. Yes, but your cousin doesn't have a certificate, so doesn't really fall into your feos advice. Point still stands that your gun would potentially spend more time out of the cabinet than in it. Also, if he were a holder, opens up a bit of a tangled Web in terms of ownership and access. Would be wise to have the gun on both certs. But that's a bit academic at this point. To me, a cabinet is not different to fixing a wardrobe to a wall. As long as you make good when you leave it's fine. Ultimately, wherever and however the gun is stored and secured its security remains your responsibility. Read the guidance and ask yourself if you were in the dock could you defend your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 That securicord is held in by " 4 screws" not sure that's up to the job.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I appreciate all of you advice, but still not overly keen on smashing up the property. Another suggestion I had from my FEO is a securicord. http://www.roxtons.co.uk/securicord.html I have a walk in wardrobe, where I could remove a piece of flooring and bolt it to the concrete as WB123 suggested. If the FEO won't be satisfied, my cousin agreed for me to install a cabinet at his place. Is that a valid option, considering he isn't a SGC holder? (obviously only I will hold the keys) And also, with having the gun out of a cabinet - I know a few folk that travel from West Midlands up to Scotland for some grouse every year - what is the law with that situation? Ive drilled holes inside built in wardrobes and found them wonderfully easy to conceal when moving on. I have always kept firearms secret from the landlord as every contract ive had has forbidden them. I would raise some flooring in the wardrobe and bolt a cabinet down if possible. Make sure you keep the flooring to reinstate on departure. Depending on the nature of the flooring it may be better to conceal/make good if you bolt into the concrete through the flooring and cut out appropriate holes for the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I think that you have to take the responsibility of gun ownership seriously, chop the wall and install a cabinet and lump the repair costs. Mike What he said is absolutely bang on.. Security is a fact of life in gun ownership and we have all had to come up with appropriate solutions to ensure that our firearms are kept secure and we remain in the right side of the law. Cutting corners should not be an option, its our responsibility to ensure appropriate security is provided. Sorry I dont mean to preach but as a security consultant I see this all the time, and quite often whilst a lower grade lock, alarm or CCTV system may save a few quid you end up more vulnerable to attack in the long run. Same applies to gun security.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycooker Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) I live in my bosses flat I do remote storage at my parents feo was more than happy I've fac n sgc my licence is even in my parents address they have no access to keys I've got 2 safes there Edited March 2, 2017 by crazycooker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 When they came to check my cabinet they weren't interested in how it was secured or to what, they gave it a good push and pull and were satisfied when it didn't move. I think that so long as you are satisfied it is secure and it won't move your all good regardless of how you fix it, if somebody wants to attack your gun storage and knows its there they will come prepared and there is little you can do to prevent them, its the casual thief who wont have a crowbar or cordless angle grinder with them that you need to be prepared against, the FEO was more interested that i had doube gazing and decent door locks than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I would like to thank everyone for their advice. I checked with my landlord and he said as long as I fix it he doesnt mind. My feo said he would prefer the securicord properly bolted to the floor than the cabinet in a non sgc holders address. I will be submiting my application in a couple of days and will wait until FEO comes round for him to tell me what is the best option. Slightly off topic - would a 12 bore over and under Baikal be a suitable starting allrounder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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