SNP's latest target - a robust response from BASC perhaps?

[LeadWasp]

Nasty Party up to it's usual tricks again - looking into what else they can mess about with http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39089614

 

With an assumption that people who shoot are inextricably linked with wildlife crime. Not sure who is worse as the Beeb is factually incorrect on a point or two.

 

Any chance of a robust denouncement from BASC of the association of shooting per se with what is actually a criminal activity? It is reckless to point the finger in this way.

 

[bakerboy]

Forward the information to BASC if you have not already done so.

 

David on PW is good, in fact very good at picking these topics up, maybe a PM direct to David will also do the trick for you.

[scotslad]

The vast mjority of those countries hunters will often be shooting on government land not private and only shooting wild birds not released, so like comparing apples to oranges but im sure SNH knew that.

So if comparing like for like that would be like comparing to anyone who stalks FC and who have to have every ticket going and pass additional shooting tests

Funny how SNH are all in favour off shooting as many deer as possible even if it means leaving 86 stags left on the hill to rot or extracting carcasses by heli into 8 wheel tippers to be incinerated.

Bunch of hypocritical *******'s

 

It also doesn't mention the density of raptors in thse countries, i bet UK will have far higher densities of raptors than most other countries. Pretty sure in some of those countries they let u shoot raptors anyway under licence.

If SNH actually followed its own rules and issued licences for raptor control in some circumstances there would not be a problem, NGO proved that EN were acting illegally in not granting licences when conditions were met

 

Also most of the countries mentioned will have next to no income coming into the country from game bird shooting, can scotland really afford to throw its sporting income away? Esp when oil revinue on ts downers

[wymberley]

n many of the countries examined, hunters must pass a two-part practical and theoretical examination in order to qualify for a hunting licence.

 

This is the bit that always concerns me although at my age, I'm fire proof and is why I asked the two prospective BASC Council candidates the question I did. I can quite easily see the day coming that if we don't do it ourselves then someone else is going to do it for us.

[wymberley]

Forward the information to BASC if you have not already done so.

 

David on PW is good, in fact very good at picking these topics up, maybe a PM direct to David will also do the trick for you.

Don't know whether it still does, but BASC used to employ a media monitoring outfit.

[panoma1]

SNH, EN and NRW are increasingly the glove puppets of the Protectionists........"false" news, unsubstantiated allegations including raptor persecution and using terminology such as the "precautionary principle" equates to..........."you don't like it so ban it" or failing that, "regulate it out of existence"

[LeadWasp]

I have sent the link to BASC - although it would be good if they had a specific email address for this sort of thing.

 

Here is one response to the report, however the thing that always gets me is how tame the counter arguments are from our representative bodies. I am not proposing anything inflammatory but a simple "so the report proves that regulation of hunting DOES NOT make the problem of wildlife crime go away......so the Scottish Goverment would be VERY wrong to suggest licensing as a means etc. etc." Nobody ever meets the juggernaut of the Nats with an similarly immovable object. Net result is they make progress. Nobody seems to shine the spotlight on them in quite the way that they do to those they find issue with.

 

http://www.scottishlandandestates.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5657:review-of-game-bird-law-and-licensing-in-selected-european-countries-published-scottish-land-a-estates-comment&catid=71:national&Itemid=107

Edited February 26, 2017 by LeadWasp

[mick miller]

Surely this should be forwarded to SACS not BASC. We frequently hear how wonderful they are by way of comparison.

[Pushandpull]

There is a response on the BASC website, which the OP might or might not think is adequate.

[LeadWasp]

Mick. BASC is the British etc etc etc. This would affect all of us in Britain because we are a united kingdom.

 

Mind you it would do no harm to SACS them know too - would you oblige? cheers

Edited February 27, 2017 by LeadWasp

[LeadWasp]

There is a response on the BASC website, which the OP might or might not think is adequate.

It's a good response to the report but I don't think it obviously or directly refutes Roseanna Cunningham's implication. The problem is that the public will hear/read her remarks and probably not the report....will they hear the counter argument - that the current Scottish government is simply wrong - just as clearly? I can understand a wish not to introduce a political dimension to a factual argument by direct criticism but unfortunately in this case, with the incumbent government's stance on land reform etc., it IS political.

 

Does anyone know where, beyond the BASC website these responses are circulated? It would be genuinely interesting - and reassuring - to know.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LeadWasp

[andrewluke]

SNH, EN and NRW are increasingly the glove puppets of the Protectionists........"false" news, unsubstantiated allegations including raptor persecution and using terminology such as the "precautionary principle" equates to..........."you don't like it so ban it" or failing that, "regulate it out of existence"

so are BASC from what i've heard during my wildfowling club agm,cant say more at the moment as i dont want to upset my clubs commitee members!

[scotslad]

To be fair Basc do hav a decent scottish office and are usually heavily involved (sit on most of the working/stakeholder groups etc) with legislation changes North of the border.

Sacs do seem to talk a good game but the problem is noone that matters has ever heard of them, so its very easy to shout and scream from outside the building but debateable wether u ever achieve anything

 

The problem basc and other shooting org's have is they only state facts and don't tend to make anything up, which never makes for good headlines in mainstream press and even the facts are pretty boring and not really news worthy to the majority of urban folk.

Really shooting/fieldsports where was all this 'fake news' begun and we have been victims of flase hoods being peddaled for decades now.

So its really hard for basc etal to get their messages out beyond the pages of Shooting times etc

 

2-3? summers ago a conservation charity shot and left 80+ stags to rot on the hill yet not a single word in mainstream press, if some 'hooray henry's' had done that for a jolly or an absentee land lord/laird holyrood, SNH and tabloids would off been all over it like a rash

 

its a far more sexy story to paint picuters with words like slaughter, dead raptors etc esp when its all done for the toffs/wealthy landowners benefit, anyone that shoots knows it BS but thats an easy story to sell to folk that know no better

[LeadWasp]

Just for the record this wasn't meant as a BASC bash - I was genuinely asking for a robust response.

I have no problem with BASC at all - quite the opposite as they have provided me with good service over the years.

[Whitebridges]

So the Scots will have to run off and pass a two-part practical and theoretical examination in order to qualify for a hunting licence otherwise they won't be allowed to shoot. Is this right?

 

So the English who will not have to ( and in some cases will not) take this test won't be able to shoot in Scotland? I would suggest a big percentage of shooters in Scotland are English. Good move Nasty Party, working towards the ruination of sporting estates in Scotland.

 

All they seem to care about is being in bed with their European brethren. Well, we've voted out so go stuff your tests where the sun don't shine.

[mick miller]

Every nation gets the government it deserves.

[Piebob]

I would suggest a big percentage of shooters in Scotland are English. Good move Nasty Party, working towards the ruination of sporting estates in Scotland.

 

Yup a goodly chunk from down South. And yes again, this just feels like the latest chip and in a series of chip, chip, chipping away at shooting/country sports.

[mick miller]

Mick. BASC is the British etc etc etc. This would affect all of us in Britain because we are a united kingdom.

 

Mind you it would do no harm to SACS them know too - would you oblige? cheers

 

Nope. Not a member, nor would I join. I suggest that legislation that effects shooting in Scotland exclusively is legislation that is best addressed by the regional organisation(s) who state that they will protect it.

 

 

 

Founded in the early 1990s, SACS is Scotland’s largest country sports organisation. We work tirelessly to protect our members and all country sports.

 

Personally, I feel this fractured approach merely dilutes any impact that BASC has in the region. However, given the majority view in that region, I understand why people would opt to support an organisation that does not use the words 'British' in its title, however misguided they are in that belief.

Edited March 1, 2017 by mick miller

[Whitebridges]

Yup a goodly chunk from down South. And yes again, this just feels like the latest chip and in a series of chip, chip, chipping away at shooting/country sports.

 

You need to get rid of that evil woman Piebob.

[mick miller]

I really feel for the minority of Scots who both disagree with the policies of the SNP, their stance against shooting and the frothy-mouthed, anti-English nationalism they spew. However, as my personal experience unfortunately attests, trying to reason with anyone who holds those beliefs is rather similar to banging your head against a wall. It's a deeply unpleasant sentiment that seems to have convinced a majority at the moment. Undoing that is going to be a very long journey indeed.

 

I'm not convinced that the SNP or any other of the regional bodies would pay much regard to protestations from BASC. That's why I suggest that SACS should be following up on this as there can be no perceived links to 'rich English shooting folk coming over here...', as anyone south of the border that holidays in Scotland for sporting purposes seems to be regarded.

Edited March 1, 2017 by mick miller

[Piebob]

 

You need to get rid of that evil woman Piebob.

I try to do my bit I can assure you. I write to both my MSP and the MP for my area, both are SNP. The MP is actually quite supportive of country sports - his father was a gamekeeper. MSP is a little more difficult to gauge, but he has been making quite a lot of effort visiting local estates to hear about the work of keepers and how sporting interests impact the small towns, shops and hotels in rural Scotland. Just need more people like them!

 

The good news is that, if social media is anything to go by, I reckon there is a growing mass of (countryside) people who may have historically voted SNP that either have or are about to change their vote.

[Piebob]

 

However, given the majority view in that region

You keep typing similar remarks. Scotland voted "no" in the independence referendum. There are fewer people in Scotland support who want to leave the UK, than those that want to remain as part of the Union.

 

And as for elections, SNP only get something like 40% of the total vote so, again, not the majority at all. Unfortunately, the remaining votes are split between the various other parties.

[mick miller]

The good news is that, if social media is anything to go by, I reckon there is a growing mass of (countryside) people who may have historically voted SNP that either have or are about to change their vote.

 

This is good news indeed. One wonders who the alternative for them is though? Labour perhaps give Corbyn's more left leaning stance on many subjects? Certainly I cannot see a lot of Scottish voters choosing Conservative as they have utterly failed to be seen as representative.

[Whitebridges]

I try to do my bit I can assure you. I write to both my MSP and the MP for my area, both are SNP. The MP is actually quite supportive of country sports - his father was a gamekeeper. MSP is a little more difficult to gauge, but he has been making quite a lot of effort visiting local estates to hear about the work of keepers and how sporting interests impact the small towns, shops and hotels in rural Scotland. Just need more people like them!

 

The good news is that, if social media is anything to go by, I reckon there is a growing mass of (countryside) people who may have historically voted SNP that either have or are about to change their vote.

 

Not before time. Good to hear the good people of Scotland are on it. Not least the useless drug hole that is Glasgow. There should be an uprising against these scum who want social benefits first and foremost.

[Whitebridges]

I really feel for the minority of Scots who both disagree with the policies of the SNP, their stance against shooting and the frothy-mouthed, anti-English nationalism they spew. However, as my personal experience unfortunately attests, trying to reason with anyone who holds those beliefs is rather similar to banging your head against a wall. It's a deeply unpleasant sentiment that seems to have convinced a majority at the moment. Undoing that is going to be a very long journey indeed.

 

I'm not convinced that the SNP or any other of the regional bodies would pay much regard to protestations from BASC. That's why I suggest that SACS should be following up on this as there can be no perceived links to 'rich English shooting folk coming over here...', as anyone south of the border that holidays in Scotland for sporting purposes seems to be regarded.

 

I presume you are a Scot?

 

If you don't like the SNP do something.

 

You sound like Robert Burns on a bad hair day.