What Is wrong With 7s?

[propercartridges]

So, if I understand you correctly, as a producer you are saying that you make what people want but the demand is not there for No7s throughout the year. Now, whereas I appreciate that the PW sample is miniscule compared to the overall shooter numbers, this is not what I'm picking up on here.

 

I agree with rbrowning2 - in view of Eley and their Pigeon HV situation, one simply has to. This means that 2 of the 3 most historically popular pigeon and small game shot sizes, but of particular interest is the former, are being phased out. Unless there are far, far less pigeon shooters which would warrant production cutbacks than we're lead to believe, with which I do not believe, this simply does not make sense to me.

 

Consequently, I could quite easily be persuaded to think that the producers are loading what they think we should use which keeps their production costs down and their profits up by curtailing the amount/range of (expensive) lead shot purchased. Having said that though, I can see their point of view if the demand by the shooters themselves for 36g of No5s for 'high' pigeon or 42g of No3s for even 'higher' pheasant continues to spiral.

 

As your advice was FOC, it might pay for me to take that which you gave to Eastdevon and buy sufficient of what I use in order to see me out - which I fear won't be too long now in the overall scheme of things - while you can still get them.

henry ford used to put a wheel to gether by himself it took 17 minutes he then got a load of workers and they all done a bit that brought a wheel down to 4 minutes so while my machine is running i can make say 300 pounds per hour after selling so to stop the run do a change over proof the loads is about 5 hours then to do it all back is another 5 hours so 10 x 300 lost now if i got a deposit on say 100 000k then its worth doing but to make take a chance on selling and putting them on the floor is just not worth it my demand is 32 gram with different shot sizes the lead price on shot to me from 1.9mm to 3.3mm per ton is all the same who makes the most money nissan with so many thousand a week and month and year same model on cars made or ferrari on low numbers so in conclusion you have to go with the numbers

[Bluebarrels]

It's all about supply and demand,your only going to supply where the demand is because that's what keeps the business up and running,BB

[motty]

I shall continue to buy continental 7.5. They are cheaper than most and are in abundance where I shop. Best of all, they do what I require.

[propercartridges]

mr wyberly put your sales hat on and ask your mates how many they want not just for proper carts but all makes and i will be astounded if at say a low price of 195 if you could come back with a order of say 50 000 thats 5 hours work to me and still get out for a couple hours shooting that working day come on now see wot you can sell thanks george going now to make 30 gram 5 and 6s 15000

[wymberley]

henry ford used to put a wheel to gether by himself it took 17 minutes he then got a load of workers and they all done a bit that brought a wheel down to 4 minutes so while my machine is running i can make say 300 pounds per hour after selling so to stop the run do a change over proof the loads is about 5 hours then to do it all back is another 5 hours so 10 x 300 lost now if i got a deposit on say 100 000k then its worth doing but to make take a chance on selling and putting them on the floor is just not worth it my demand is 32 gram with different shot sizes the lead price on shot to me from 1.9mm to 3.3mm per ton is all the same who makes the most money nissan with so many thousand a week and month and year same model on cars made or ferrari on low numbers so in conclusion you have to go with the numbers

 

 

It's all about supply and demand,your only going to supply where the demand is because that's what keeps the business up and running,BB

Yep, as said I can appreciate this. Unless, as suggested, there are fewer pigeon shooters than one would believe there are, I'm afraid, Guys, I just can't get my head around the lack of demand for the sizes under discussion - unless, of course, they're all following Motty's lead.

[propercartridges]

 

 

Yep, as said I can appreciate this. Unless, as suggested, there are fewer pigeon shooters than one would believe there are, I'm afraid, Guys, I just can't get my head around the lack of demand for the sizes under discussion - unless, of course, they're all following Motty's lead.

no good keeping money on floor u want made done dusted out the door paid and out the way keep the turnover going chop chop no messing about

[wymberley]

mr wyberly put your sales hat on and ask your mates how many they want not just for proper carts but all makes and i will be astounded if at say a low price of 195 if you could come back with a order of say 50 000 thats 5 hours work to me and still get out for a couple hours shooting that working day come on now see wot you can sell thanks george going now to make 30 gram 5 and 6s 15000

Bearing in mind that I retired some 15 years ago and therefore I will need some incentive to get out of bed in the morning, your commission rate is?

[wj939]

It's not just following the clay cartridge route- it's a shift in general to shooting higher and higher birds, this is mirrored in the equipment we are using- long guns tight chokes and higher and higher being the challenge- the pigeon market for cartridges isn't huge or as valuable as others to the manufacturers- it's about a cut price cartridge with a 28-32 gram load and keeping a low number of options- when you consider plastic and fibre, 5,6 and 7 shot that's 6 runs for a manufacturer per cartridge weight and assume there is at least 3 weights for a typical pigeon shell -28,30,32.

 

The cheaper option rightly or wrongly is for them to narrow that to the most popular 6's- and if you want to shoot something smaller, generally speaking 28grams is suitable and therefore the 'average' man buys a clay shell that's cheaper.

[propercartridges]

Bearing in mind that I retired some 15 years ago and therefore I will need some incentive to get out of bed in the morning, your commission rate is?

i think you misunderstand me i said not just my carts but everybodys just pop a few questions to your mates and come back with a number on model t fords i could do single handed 700 000 a week with help and a few more hours 1 million would not be imposible for me work it out a box of 25 of done dusted every 6 seconds and put that into working hours but i can sell them so the magic question is shud i make low numbers for same profit and alot of pratting about

[wymberley]

i think you misunderstand me i said not just my carts but everybodys just pop a few questions to your mates and come back with a number on model t fords i could do single handed 700 000 a week with help and a few more hours 1 million would not be imposible for me work it out a box of 25 of done dusted every 6 seconds and put that into working hours but i can sell them so the magic question is shud i make low numbers for same profit and alot of pratting about

To be perfectly honest, at times I have a great deal of difficulty working out what it is exactly that you're saying. Not quite sure about the above either to be truthful, but I think I got a handle on the last bit.

 

I think you should do whatever you think best - after all, it is your business and whatever you decide will not affect me.

 

If my RFD goes to a great deal of trouble to acquire me a 20p widget we both know that in doing so where I'll be going to buy my next gun. Similarly, if he's content to keep a few bullets in stock for me that nobody else uses, we both know where I'm going to pick up my bog standard LR and HMR rounds. A bit of effort and not much profit on his part is the swings, but hopefully he is well rewarded on the roundabouts. Unfortunately, as I'm not totally naive, I recognise that such a relationship between customer and retailer/producer is rapidly being eroded for the various and obvious reasons.

 

PS: Come to think of it, I'm now not quite so sure about that either.

[ChrisPCarter]

I'm always looking for 7 shot, especially in the smaller gauges.

It's so annoying to go to a shop and find they only do 5 and 6 shot in 410 or 28 gauge which gives a pretty poor shot density. At your average closer ranges and on smaller quarry you're much better off shooting small sizes.

I think part of the problem is the cartridge industry trying to separate clay and game loads.

Pigeon loads are also an attempt at a half way house where they only do them out of the game season to try to divert the trade to the more expensive "game" cartridges which we all know are basically the same thing.

If they tried to sell 12 gauge game cartridges in 7 shot then most people would be asking why they shouldn't just use clay loads which are only half a shot size different.

Personally I've been buying a lot of Italian cartridges from Fiocchi and RC. Fiocchi in particular are fantastic value and do a huge range of sizes from 10 to 5 in most gauges.

I use the excellent Fiocchi FBlack 28g 7.5's on clays and these are a UK 7 so I'm going to start using them on pigeons as they are only about £48 a slab and as cartridges have been going up they have held their price quite well so far.

It makes you wonder how many other people are doing the same as me and almost exclusively buying European cartridges in 6, 7 and 8 shot sizes that the UK manufacturers are missing out on?

There's a lot of things smaller shot is suited to - Partridge, Grouse, Snipe, Woodcock, Pigeons, Doves, Jackdaws, Jays... What really needs bigger sizes 5+ ? High Crows, Pheasants, Ducks? They are only a small part of what we shoot.

[ChrisPCarter]

To be perfectly honest, at times I have a great deal of difficulty working out what it is exactly that you're saying. Not quite sure about the above either to be truthful.

 

You're not the only one.

[Walker570]

Amen to that.36 and 37.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Walker570

[neutron619]

@ChrisPCarter:

 

I think it's time that that website you're working on had an outing:

 

http://www.smallboreshotguns.com/number-6-shot/

 

*Hat Tip*

[figgy]

Enjoyed reading that from the link.

[hawkfanz]

fiocchi list there black range 71/2 at 2.3 mm and blue 71/2 at 2.4mm so they cant all be uk no7 can they.

[rbrowning2]

@ChrisPCarter:

 

I think it's time that that website you're working on had an outing:

 

http://www.smallboreshotguns.com/number-6-shot/

 

*Hat Tip*

Nice work on the link, who is the author? And their credentials.

 

Just wondering why they have gone down the path of a new site and not published on http://www.fourten.org.uk

Which is another useful site I like for small gauges.

[PhilR]

fiocchi list there black range 71/2 at 2.3 mm and blue 71/2 at 2.4mm so they cant all be uk no7 can they.

Look again,I've just check the Fiocchi website. FBlue and FBlack are 7.5 Italian shot size so 2.4mm. The TT1 UK range are English shot sizes so that range 7.5 will be 2.3mm.