Pigeon Pieman Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Well chaps, do you need a game licence to shoot pigeons? I'll be interested in your opininos then I'll post a reply from our Police Authority Licencing Dept to the question, that will probably come as a great surprise! :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Opinions! Opinions!! Dyslexic fingers tonight! :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 No you do not need a game licence for pigeon as they are classed as vermin and not game. There is also no closed season on them as this country is granted an all year open one due to the damage they do and their large numbers. So what do the brains of your constabulary say then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quercus Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 No licence needed, pieons are not classed as game under any legislation. I assume from your post that your police authority thinks differently? :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 The following are classed as pests (not game) and may be shot all year round by legally approved means. The government issues an open license on them. Anyone saying otherwise is incorrect. Birds: Woodpigeon, along with Crow, Jackdaw, Magpie, Rook, House Sparrow, Starling, Feral Pigeon, Collard Dove, Herring Gull, Jay, Lsr Black-backed Gull, Gt. Black-backed Gull and Mammals:Fox, Rat, Mice (except dormice), Rabbit, Grey Squirrel, Mink , Weasel, Stoat and Feral Cat. Muntjac deer may also be taken without a license all year round, but care should be taken not to leave dependent young. They are a feral, non-native species not yet classified as a pest but numbers are growing. It has been proposed that cormorant is to be added to the pest species. Game Licenses are a throwback to about 2 centuries ago when there were wealthy landowners with vast estates. This was originally for them to control shooting (anyone not issued with a game license would be a poacher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 I would say no, you don,t need a game licence. The game licence only runs for part of the year, you can shoot pigeons all the year round, so it would be an inappropriate licence anyway. I think you have to have a Game Dealers licence to sell them. Which is a slightly different thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 You only need a game license to shoot game. End of story. :( Cranfield means that you need a game dealers license to deal in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Don't forget that most Plods will do their utmost to hinder law abiding citizens from acquiring and using shotguns, and if that means offering misleading interpretations of the current firearms laws, then so be it...!!! Perhaps they need reminding of the massive reduction in armed crime following the handgun ban...!!! I don't think??? Stand your ground, seek independent and informed advice, and enjoy your lawful shooting activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 I would disagree with that generalisation. Though that may very occasionally be the case (and probably not from actual firearms officers anyway), many police firearms officers are keen shots themselves. I know several, and one is on the neighbouring pheasant shoot. Everyone involved in shooting should at least join BASC, and preferably also the Countryside Alliance, as they stand up for shooting and offer advice. BASC membership an insurance for shooting. I think the CA may do too. www.basc.org.uk www.countryside-alliance.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 It is certainly the case in Hertfordshire, having had to help a number of newcomers to the sport of shooting acquire a certificate, by wading through the loose interpretation of the law by our local Police - perhaps they are more relaxed about in in Yorks? I should point out that I am not anti Police - but perhaps better informed than others without very close connections. :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 It's probably the interpretation picked up by the firearms dept secretaries rather than that of the firearms officers themselves. ........but don't forget that if you shoot pheasants, hares and other game, you DO need a game license. (This applies especially if any police officers are members of your shoot. I know of a visitor on the neighbouring shoot who had to rush off to the post office on the morning of the shoot when he found this out) :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elma Fud Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Hammergun Hammergun is right, however, a little point on deer. Licence Exemptions for taking deer. A game licence is not required for pursuing and killing of deer (legal in England and Wales) Game Licences Act 1860 Section 5 Deer can only be shot with a legal caliber of rifle above .240 Shotguns can only be used if deer are serious damage is being caused,on arable/enclosed land, and not less than a 12 bore (and the onus is upon you the individual, to prove the this was the only method open to you.) and humane dispatch of a deer. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Well fellas, there is no real answer anymore! The legislation that the licence is issued under allows the Enforcing Authority of the licence offences (in this case the Police) to interperate the legislation. The interpretation allows the ACT of the quarry taking to be considered as well as the quarry itself. We all know about ducks, pheasants etc but did you know that the legislation actually refers to rabbits as well!? :( The legislative framework of modern governmental theologogy for interpretation allows for a thing called 'inferrence of action'. This means that although not listed as a specific quarry for a game licence, other animals can be related to it by the nature of their taking. What all this techno babble actually means is that Police forces have the powers to require game licences on HOW the quarry is taken, not necessarily what is taken. Therefore, when I asked the local bobby about a game licence he replied' depends on how you shoot them'! If shot purely for sport, there is an inferred link to the act of gaming, which requires a licence! We all know that pigeons are shot as a form of vermin control. However, if you speak of shooting them as a sporting target, you would need a game licence! Same goes for rabbits too!! How obtuse is that :*) :*) :( I spoke to BASC legal dept and they agreed that, technically, any creature shot as sport is, by inferrence (that word again!) game quarry!!! The upshot of this is we all shoot pigeons as vermin control so there is no issue but, technically, pure sport would need licensing!! Wonder how that effects the Guides? I'll post a copy of the legislation and letter from BASC (I asked for it in writing) as soon as I get my bl**dy scanner to work! Wierd....but true :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Your answer from the local bobby is similar to the explanation I got from our local bobby more than 20 years ago. I had asked how come it had been reprted in the press that some poachers had been done for shooting rabbits without a game license. "If you are a poacher, everything is classed as game" He replied. Poachers must be doing it for sport, I suppose!! If you pay for rabbit shooting or, I suppose, pigeon shooting, you should have a Game license, apparently. They run from the time you take them out until August 31st, I believe, but it's a long time since I bothered with one. OOOPS!!! What have I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I have one. There are two types - one for £4 and one for £6. The only difference is one lasts a year and the other for 6 months. As the revenue doesn't cover the admin costs there is talk by Tony B's ministers to incorporate it onto the shotgun/firearms cert cost. Same old story - more bl**dy expense passed on to us :( :C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigie Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 How can they justify the cost of a game license in with the cost of a firearms certificate if there are people out there that only shoot Clay pigeons, or are they going to be classed as game now too. Bless the cute little defenceless black circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Ah Grasshopper (Craigie) You have much to learn in the art of fleecing poeple by politicians. They'll say you can get an exemption, then make it so difficult to apply for we'll not bother. This my young grasshopper is known as 'forced hand income generation'. and is frequently the chosen path of our enemy.... :( :( :( But take heart Grasshopper, our day will come :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGhost Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Wow what a lot of posts!! :( REmember you also need a game licence if you are a beater or a picker up. If you have to kill a runner then you would be on the wrong side of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Thats true NGhost. Beating is yet another way to get us to spend our £6!! :( I'm off to think of another post thread, this one generated quite a respone - nice one folks :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigie Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Pieman, I quite agree, whichever way the politicians can penalise us law abiding citizens, they will. and the villians get away scot free as per usual, think I might move to Bosnia and try to claim political asylum from persecution. Anybody want a lift??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Game Licences expire on 31st July in the year after you purchase them. Its a very interesting interpretation of the law , as to whether we are shooting pigeons for "sport", or "vermin control". The fact that we are individuals, not paying, nor being paid to shoot the birds, probably makes it OK as "vermin control". However, if you are paying up to £100 per day to shoot loads of pigeons, sometimes on pre-baited fields, thats not "vermin control ", thats "sport". But, if you put the whole thing in perspective , an annual licence costs £6.00. I should think the professional Guides can afford to "treat" their customers, to one of those. :( At the moment, my version of pigeon shooting is HARD WORK !!! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Bu**er! Yet again I have to agree Mr C :( Are you SURE we aren't the same person? :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 hammergun. said somthing about feral cats im not shure on. How can you tell the diffrence between feral cats and pet cats besides the pet collar round there necks.I go to my mates small field he and his wife have a couple of tame pheasants.A couple of cats had got in and broke the eggs.He rang the rspca about the cats they called but they just seemed disinterested. He just said dont worry they wont come back.The land is some distance away from any houses so they cannot be anyones pets.We Waited a couple of hours and guess wot they where back.My mate said wot is the point ringing the rspca out again if thats there attitude.I never though the rspca where like that? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I never though the rspca where like that? LOL all the best yis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 The "feral cat" debate, is similar to the "feral pigeon" one. When we had problems with "feral cats" in my company premises, our lawyers advised us to post notices in the local paper and in local shops, advising cat owners that on :(? date, humane traps would be placed out for these cats and a "recognised" contractor would remove them. Any cats trapped without means of identification (collar with address), would be humanely destroyed. We had to do this twice a year for a few years, before the problem reduced. I wouldn,t rely on the RSPCA to see me across a busy road. :S Pieman, we can,t be the same person, I am far too good looking to have been cloned. :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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