Fisheruk Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Living in an area where we have Red Squirrels as well as Grey Squirrels we have recently been receiving regular reports of Red Squirrel sightings where Red Squirrels have not been reported recently or in deed for many years. We have also seen an explosion of grey squirrels generally and also in areas recently largely devoid of greys. It is now two breeding seasons since Warfarin was banned for use against Squirrels. Now that Warfarin hoppers have not been used to deliver Warfarin we are seeing an explosion of Squirrels both Red and Grey, does this show that the native Red Squirrel population was being suppressed by the Forestry use of Warfarin. Time will tell whether the sightings of single Red Squirrels in new ares will result in new breeding populations. Just shows how important it is to up the effort in grey control to make space for natural Red expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 you raise an interesting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 It would be interesting if they had been poisoning both reds and greys, hopefully by accident with the reds? Maybe also if they have had to stop poisoning they (forestry commission) may be more inclined to let us shoot the greys on there land, given there are going to be more if them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 I don't think there will be squirrel shooting on FC land any time soon, but maybe trapping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I would say that if the reds had access to the feeders same as the Greys they would also succumb to the effects from the Warfarin as it is a potent Rodenticide,some studies record the half life of the drug in rodents can be 10-50 hours. The time period for the concentration of the drug to be reduced to half its original value. Very encouraging to hear of the increase in reds, if the control measure of use of anticoagulants has been removed from these target areas it could be suggestive of increase in population then they move on to establish new territory. atb 7diaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Info plucked from the BASC website. "Warfarin Poisoning The EU licence for the production and sale of warfarin as a grey squirrel bait ended on 30 September 2014. Manufacturers and stockists are no longer able to sell warfarin to control grey squirrels. However, users who have stocks of it left can use it until 30 September 2015." It was illegal to use warfarin for controlling grey squirrels within 10 km of a known Red Squirrel population. Is that why over the years the FC have been so reluctant to consider the extension of the buffer zone around the Sefton Red Squirrel stronghold and why we are now seeing Red Squirrels appearing beyond the 10 km radius? Since warfarin has stopped being used from September 2015. Two clear breeding seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Could very well be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Increase in buzzards here in Liverpool over that period, has been very noticeable they are increasingly going into woods and gardens. As there are no rabbits here they must be taking a good number of greys because the squirrels scurry quickly down the trees and take cover under evergreens when they hear the cry of the buzzards overhead. The Warfarin would have had a greater impact on the reds as they are only half to a third the body weight of the greys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartyboy Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Is it common for buzzards to take squirrels? I've never witnessed it myself but have noticed a lot less squirrel activity when the buzzards are calling overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I have only seen it happen once on a live squirrel but they often take the ones left after being shot. I regularly see them piling into a tree and not emerging so assume that they are eating their kill behind the leaves. More chance of seeing it clearly once the leaves have fallen. I have only once seen a fox get a live squirrel but it is accepted that they do commonly kill squirrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Goshawks are the ones to take squirrels. Those and Pine Martens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 Need to get pine martens into Kielder Forest as the humans have failed to reduce the grey population there and I fear that the reds will soon be wiped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 Need to get pine martens into Kielder Forest as the humans have failed to reduce the grey population there and I fear that the reds will soon be wiped out. The reds will be the first to get wiped out if Pine Martens are introduced to Kielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) The reds will be the first to get wiped out if Pine Martens are introduced to Kielder. Not so ... Overwhelmingly the Grey's are taken. Edited November 1, 2017 by hoggysreels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 I watched something a while back and the pine martens struggle to catch reds as there smaller and more agile, hence why they lived in the same areas for so long, grey squirrel numbers dropped significantly in areas where pine martins were or were reintroduced can't remember which way it was probably the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Deer populations are much healthier and stable when wolves are present in the ecosystem; red squirrel population would be healthier with Pine Martens present as they kill the old and infirm. They have seen this in the Republic of Ireland and the martens eradicate the greys entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Sorry for being a bit late to the thread. Now warafin is banned are all the estates that used to poison going to start trapping now or just put up with/suffer the damage?? While it is absolutely brilliant news that the reds can recover and recolonize as quickly, (at the talk they were surprised how quickly they recolonized Aberdeen and how they can recover in some circumstances after squirrel pox) But the critical factor is the greys have to be either non existant or in very low densities of greys. I would guess many estates will just stop culling greys due to the expense and time consuming nature of trapping, long term I can't see the loss of warafin cannot be a good thing for the reds. Possibly extend the distance from known reds, but there will be massive swathes of countryside no where near any reds, even in Scotland an intensive poisoning campign in middle of central belt would help massively. at least then ur creating a vacum/void for squirrels to fill into rather than constantly spreading out into red territory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 The reality is that there are many hundreds of folk around the country who are shooting and trapping Grey Squirrels. If the bounty scheme were to be introduced it would probably prompt a few few more to join in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Aye ur dead right a decent bounty on the tails would be a really cheap and effective way to cull some decent numbers. I've obviously not used warafin before coming from an area with loads of reds, but I definitely would of thought it could be a handy tool when used carefully and well well away from any reds. I know how time consuming I find trapping the greys, but then again we're checking traps 2 or even 3 times a day and often only wanting to catch 1 or 2 specific greys I fear the initial spike in red number may be short lived as the grey numbers continue to soar and move into the areas the reds have just colonised with the reds soon dieing off as they have done over most of Eng when they have to compete with the greys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 No, warfarin is nasty stuff out in the open. The baited corn gets spilled everywhere and is then picked up by anything interested and passing by. Dead carcasses are eaten by hawkes, owls fox badgers. Really nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Aye fair play. But could they not design better hoppers for it (althou I suppose squirrels habits of stashing food won't help, if greys do that to same extent as reds) or even make a solid feedblock they could knaw away at but not spill or remove? Do u not have the same problems with rat carcasses thou? While I'm against poisoning if its causing other if they're is no other way then sometimes needs must. When u see how the Ozzie's and kiwi's treat there non native invasive species, widespread heli drops of poison bait and plenty of poison hoppers in less remote areas. Not saying its a great example as their killing every mammal they can from deer, boar, possums, but to protect native things that are struggling and if there is no other option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Rats tend to die underground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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