Side by Side Club

[enfieldspares]

There was a 1950s/1960s Wilkes BLE went through one of the provincial auctions last month. I was sorely tempted to bid as I did once visit Wilkes when still at Beak Street and the two by then quite old brothers still ran it. I have to say that it was the sort of place that you wiped you feet when leaving. Absolutely filthy dirty. But then again they were true working gunmaker's premises. Not a showroom as Holland's and the rest's London premises had by then become.

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

There was a 1950s/1960s Wilkes BLE went through one of the provincial auctions last month. I was sorely tempted to bid as I did once visit Wilkes when still at Beak Street and the two by then quite old brothers still ran it. I have to say that it was the sort of place that you wiped you feet when leaving. Absolutely filthy dirty. But then again they were true working gunmaker's premises. Not a showroom as Holland's and the rest's London premises had by then become.

I have heard that said a few times about Wilkes. 

The first time I set foot in a ‘proper gunmakers’ was in Benjamin Wild’s place in Price Street in 1969. I had taken a Derby Rosson to be sleeved, my first venture into English guns.
Not what I expected and quite a shock to the system, a filthy place accessed by some outdoor steps, if I am remembering correctly. 
The old boy nevertheless did me an excellent job at a very fair price. Most places were quoting £60 for sleeving. Wilds did it for £40, plus £2 for a new top rib. I used the Rosson until 1989.

[enfieldspares]

2 minutes ago, London Best said:

I have heard that said a few times about Wilkes. 

I also met the then old, but nevertheless George Lewis "the Younger" at Lower Loveday Street. My father had one of the Lewis "Light Magnum" 20 bore guns. All I can really remember is that he had a nice warm coal fire going! 

[Old Boggy]

6 hours ago, London Best said:

I have heard that said a few times about Wilkes. 

The first time I set foot in a ‘proper gunmakers’ was in Benjamin Wild’s place in Price Street in 1969. I had taken a Derby Rosson to be sleeved, my first venture into English guns.
Not what I expected and quite a shock to the system, a filthy place accessed by some outdoor steps, if I am remembering correctly. 
The old boy nevertheless did me an excellent job at a very fair price. Most places were quoting £60 for sleeving. Wilds did it for £40, plus £2 for a new top rib. I used the Rosson until 1989.

My old Woodward ‘The Automatic’ push forward under lever had been sleeved (steel on Damascus) by Benjamin Wilds (BW in a circle). It was stamped ‘Sleeved’ on the side of the barrels as opposed to the later stamping on the flats. I never could find out when this sleeving was done, but assume fairly early in the 20th. century.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

Many thanks,

OB

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

To the best of my knowledge, the first sleeving (as a repair measure) in the UK was done in 1948/49 by Chris Ashthorpe of Severn Stoke.  There are threads with a lot of detail on the (American) DoubleGunShop Forum.

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=264363&page=all

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596253&page=1

Note that major and long standing businesses like Beretta and Darne used (ans still use) a monobloc method of barrel construction for their new guns.

There is a lot of data and discussion in those threads.

 

[kevin55]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

To the best of my knowledge, the first sleeving (as a repair measure) in the UK was done in 1948/49 by Chris Ashthorpe of Severn Stoke.  There are threads with a lot of detail on the (American) DoubleGunShop Forum.

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=264363&page=all

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596253&page=1

Note that major and long standing businesses like Beretta and Darne used (ans still use) a monobloc method of barrel construction for their new guns.

There is a lot of data and discussion in those threads.

 

My rotary under lever Purdey hammer gun  (featured on this thread) is invisibly sleeved, though I'm told Purdey never sleeved guns

My Woodward -like OB's above - is visibly sleeved and restocked so only the action is original (like Trigger's broom if the broom were in 3 parts) I'd need to check where the words sleeved are stamped, but it's 1882, no 2 of 3 -I found details when the nice older guy at Purdey let you look at the records and take a photo

 

[Old Boggy]

8 hours ago, kevin55 said:

My rotary under lever Purdey hammer gun  (featured on this thread) is invisibly sleeved, though I'm told Purdey never sleeved guns

My Woodward -like OB's above - is visibly sleeved and restocked so only the action is original (like Trigger's broom if the broom were in 3 parts) I'd need to check where the words sleeved are stamped, but it's 1882, no 2 of 3 -I found details when the nice older guy at Purdey let you look at the records and take a photo

 

Hi Kevin,

Was the guy at Purdey`s David Maynard?  He very kindly provided me with all the information on my Woodward back in 2012.

OB

[kevin55]

1 hour ago, Old Boggy said:

Hi Kevin,

Was the guy at Purdey`s David Maynard?  He very kindly provided me with all the information on my Woodward back in 2012.

OB

I think so OB

[Pukka Bundook]

Wonderful thread this!

Old gunsmiths premises and small brass foundries were all the same.

Bucket for a bathroom.

A rag around nose and mouth when pouring brass.

Shaky old blokes from far too much arsenic. But by they could turn out some grand stuff!

Old GE Lewis was one of the best barrel borers in Birmingham

I had an old double damascus with his name on it.

Middling grade. Had a hole in one barrel half way up. I plugged it with epoxy as a lad and if never blew it out, but soldered it in the end.

One hard winter I got a lot of woodies coming on to our sprout patch.

They were still very fat.

That old gun with 2 3/4 drams of Ts2 black, and an ounce of sevens was a wonderful killer!

It was all longish shots but did the trick.

Here is another.

Great Grandfather bought it at the estate sale of C Arthur Head, Hartburn Hall, Stockton on Tees, for my grandfathers 21st Birthday in 1917.

He used it the greater part of his shooting life.

I showed one poor pic of it previously.

Its a JF Smythe,

Darlington and Stockton - on Tees.

SLE, 30 inch damascus.

articulated front trigger.

Charles Arthur Head was one of the owners of the  Head Wrightson iron and steel foundry.

Note the very narrow fences, yet still on the face.

Stock...

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Pukka Bundook
Spelling.

[Konor]

Lovely gun Rich and all the better for the accompanying history. The escutcheon STUDY QUIET is that reference to a place or a motto ?

[Pukka Bundook]

7 hours ago, Konor said:

Lovely gun Rich and all the better for the accompanying history. The escutcheon STUDY QUIET is that reference to a place or a motto ?

Am thinking it was the family motto or a crest, as it's on a laurel, John.

Stocking up is a bit unusual but can shoot it alright, Or Used to be able to!

[Konor]

2 minutes ago, Pukka Bundook said:

Am thinking it was the family motto or a crest, as it's on a laurel, John.

Stocking up is a bit unusual but can shoot it alright, Or Used to be able to!

👍. I’m sure it’ll all come back. I’d also check your master eye beforehand as that can change with age , you might have to dim one eye if that’s the case.

[Pukka Bundook]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

👍. I’m sure it’ll all come back. I’d also check your master eye beforehand as that can change with age , you might have to dim one eye if that’s the case.

Master eye still working John.

Had caterract surgery a good few years back, but master eye same.

Detached a retina, and got that glued back as well!

Don't normally wear glasses for anything but reading, but this clay spot  says glasses must be worn. Summat else to get used to!

[Konor]

👍 Best of luck 

[Pukka Bundook]

19 minutes ago, Konor said:

👍 Best of luck 

👍

Gun case, John.

Only picture I know of, of Hartburn Hall.

long gone now!

Edited 8 hours ago by Pukka Bundook

[islandgun]

16 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said:

Wonderful thread this!

Old gunsmiths premises and small brass foundries were all the same.

Bucket for a bathroom.

A rag around nose and mouth when pouring brass.

Shaky old blokes from far too much arsenic. But by they could turn out some grand stuff!

Old GE Lewis was one of the best barrel borers in Birmingham

I had an old double damascus with his name on it.

Middling grade. Had a hole in one barrel half way up. I plugged it with epoxy as a lad and if never blew it out, but soldered it in the end.

One hard winter I got a lot of woodies coming on to our sprout patch.

They were still very fat.

That old gun with 2 3/4 drams of Ts2 black, and an ounce of sevens was a wonderful killer!

It was all longish shots but did the trick.

Here is another.

Great Grandfather bought it at the estate sale of C Arthur Head, Hartburn Hall, Stockton on Tees, for my grandfathers 21st Birthday in 1917.

He used it the greater part of his shooting life.

I showed one poor pic of it previously.

Its a JF Smythe,

Darlington and Stockton - on Tees.

SLE, 30 inch damascus.

articulated front trigger.

Charles Arthur Head was one of the owners of the  Head Wrightson iron and steel foundry.

Note the very narrow fences, yet still on the face.

Stock...

 

 

An absolute beauty, with a lovely history.............. and leg o nutton case 

[Pukka Bundook]

53 minutes ago, islandgun said:

An absolute beauty, with a lovely history.............. and leg o nutton case 

Yes Island gun, it has both cases. But that oak and leather feels like it has six guns in it when it's empty!

Talk about muckle!

This gun fitted my Grandfathers best friend as well as it did himself, but Jack Warnock( GP) liked shorter barrels, so they sent this one on the train down to Churchills, and they made him an XXV but patterned the stock off this one.

Still has Churchills sticker on the oak and leather case.

Jack and his brother Guy were from up your way, Island gun.

Guy was a heart specialist.

Both grand shots.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Pukka Bundook

[Konor]

3 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said:

👍

Gun case, John.

Only picture I know of, of Hartburn Hall.

long gone now!

A quick Google of study quite brought up a lodge house for sale. Four Doric pillars at the front with a crest bearing the motto Study Quiet. House is the former lodge to Rickerby House  at Carlisle. I wonder if there is a family link to Hartburn Hall ?

[Pukka Bundook]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

A quick Google of study quite brought up a lodge house for sale. Four Doric pillars at the front with a crest bearing the motto Study Quiet. House is the former lodge to Rickerby House  at Carlisle. I wonder if there is a family link to Hartburn Hall ?

Id love a link to what you found, John!

I dont know of any possible connections, but will be very interesting to check it out.

This gun and Arthur Head were from the same spot more or less, as were our family at the time.

Thank you for the info!

[Konor]

4 minutes ago, Pukka Bundook said:

Id love a link to what you found, John!

I dont know of any possible connections, but will be very interesting to check it out.

This gun and Arthur Head were from the same spot more or less, as were our family at the time.

Thank you for the info!

Hi Rich a quick search shows that Rickerby House was built circa 1835 for George Head Head (1795-1876) banker, mine owner, and High Sheriff of Cumberland..

[Konor]

I’m rubbish at the computer Rich but hopeful this will help I googled Study Quiet Lodge House and the site that came up was OnTheMarket.com and that had the lodge house up for sale. I then Googled Rickerby House and that gave me the build information and  George Head Head’s name.

The history behind the old side by side guns is fascinating and adds an extra dimension to shooting.

[Pukka Bundook]

29 minutes ago, Konor said:

Hi Rich a quick search shows that Rickerby House was built circa 1835 for George Head Head (1795-1876) banker, mine owner, and High Sheriff of Cumberland..

This must be Charles Arthur's father I'd imagine John.

C. Arthur Head bought the teasdale mine in partnership with Joseph Wrightson, in 1866.

They both invested 

8,000 pounds.

This sounds  about right for Arthur to be the right age to be George's son.

Maybe!

[Konor]

👍