Should drugs be decriminalised

[henry d]

I`m on the fence.

Removing the money/power from criminals will probably make them increase other crimes to keep the moolah coming in, they won`t just say "Fair cop guvnor, its the straight and narrow for me now!". They may even do what lots of crime gangs do and bring in "under the counter" or fake drugs as they do with fags n booze to under cut the governments taxation. On the positive side there will be better control of purity of substances and the health benifits associated with that.

All drugs...? Probably not, there are more and more coming onto the market thanks to Doctor Zee and others like him and the potential benefits and problems are not known, so there has to be some limit, but that wouldn`t be enough for some as it defeats the purpose of legalisation.

[Gordon R]

I seem to recall Angel Dust being a particularly nasty drug. Should this be made available?

The idea of providing drugs for zero cost, provided people signed up for treatment, seemed to have not been thought through.

[bostonmick]

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I seem to recall Angel Dust being a particularly nasty drug. Should this be made available?

The idea of providing drugs for zero cost, provided people signed up for treatment, seemed to have not been thought through.

The system already exists. They sign onto a programe they get methadone  but they still seek out dealers for drugs also. You see this country is to soft with these wasters. People are being denied life changing ops and medication due to cost yet we can always find millions to fund this garbage. 

[Gordon R]

bostonmick - the system provides a substitute, not the real thing.

Whilst I have little time for drug users, I accept that some are too weak to get off them. I am sure people will fire back with the cost of alcohol or nicotine related NHS costs, but I don't see that we should add to a list that is too long already.

If drugs are legalised, but highly taxed, the rich will not notice the difference. The poor will still struggle.

To be honest, I don't have the answer and wonder where it will all end.

 

 

[bostonmick]

29 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

bostonmick - the system provides a substitute, not the real thing.

Whilst I have little time for drug users, I accept that some are too weak to get off them. I am sure people will fire back with the cost of alcohol or nicotine related NHS costs, but I don't see that we should add to a list that is too long already.

If drugs are legalised, but highly taxed, the rich will not notice the difference. The poor will still struggle.

To be honest, I don't have the answer and wonder where it will all end.

 

 

I know it is a substitute. My point was it has similar effects a d the addict uses it to top up their supply when they have no money. I can see no point in tax payers money being used to supply the real drug also the cost of admin would be enormous. Dealers should have everything stripped from them cars house bank account. Leave them with absolutely nothing to come out of prison for and that is the small dealer right up to the main man. 

[SpringDon]

I seem to have missed the division of drugs into nasty and nice, is heroin one of the nice ones?

Tax payers money is used to clean up after crimes committed by addicts, clean up addicts and prop up unpleasant governments in the name of the war on drugs. Why not put in all into admin instead?

[Gordon R]

I seem to have missed the point of the last post.

[Mungler]

Well the good news is that there are now an increasing number of countries that have gone down (and now are some years down) the path of decriminalisation and legalisation and the sensible thing to do will be to watch and see how those countries do. 

 

[ClemFandango]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Well the good news is that there are now an increasing number of countries that have gone down (and now are some years down) the path of decriminalisation and legalisation and the sensible thing to do will be to watch and see how those countries do. 

 

which countries have legalised which drugs?

And by legalised do you mean just for general sale as much as you like when you like or do you mean by prescription for medicinal purposes because they are two very different things.

[bostonmick]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

Well the good news is that there are now an increasing number of countries that have gone down (and now are some years down) the path of decriminalisation and legalisation and the sensible thing to do will be to watch and see how those countries do. 

 

Why would that be good news. 

[Mungler]

Well, if what they are doing new and differently works or proves to be better than what was....

I would also hazard a guess that in those countries that have stepped towards decriminalisation/ legalisation they had good reason to, didn’t take the decision lightly, gave it proper thought and have a plan. Let’s see how they get on then? It might be better than Shooting / locking everyone up etc. who knows?

[ClemFandango]

15 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Well, if what they are doing new and differently works or proves to be better than what was....

I would also hazard a guess that in those countries that have stepped towards decriminalisation/ legalisation they had good reason to, didn’t take the decision lightly, gave it proper thought and have a plan. Let’s see how they get on then? It might be better than Shooting / locking everyone up etc. who knows?

Which countries have legalised drugs? Have they legalised all or just specific drugs?

[Danger-Mouse]

2 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

Which countries have legalised drugs? Have they legalised all or just specific drugs?

Several US States have done so for marijuana. It has only been done at state level, technically under federal law it still remains illegal. My guess is the government is letting it play out and observing the effects, if the experiment fails they still have the option of clamping down at the federal level. Colorado was one of the first states to legalise it. They have released figures about the economic and criminal effects.

Others that either legalised or decriminalised it, for personal use  include, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Columbia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Equador, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, India, Jamaica, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Russia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, USA, Uruguay,  US Virgin Islands.

There are a few other countries that simply turn a blind eye to it's use like Thailand and Viet Nam.

Portugal have decriminalised everything. Quite a number of other countries now allow small quantities of drugs for "personal use".

Edited June 2, 2018 by Danger-Mouse

[martyn2233]

19 hours ago, Danger-Mouse said:

Several US States have done so for marijuana. It has only been done at state level, technically under federal law it still remains illegal. My guess is the government is letting it play out and observing the effects, if the experiment fails they still have the option of clamping down at the federal level. Colorado was one of the first states to legalise it. They have released figures about the economic and criminal effects.

Others that either legalised or decriminalised it, for personal use  include, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Columbia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Equador, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, India, Jamaica, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Russia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, USA, Uruguay,  US Virgin Islands.

There are a few other countries that simply turn a blind eye to it's use like Thailand and Viet Nam.

Portugal have decriminalised everything. Quite a number of other countries now allow small quantities of drugs for "personal use".

+1 

In the news yesterday 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/02/legalise-cannabis-treasury-3bn-drugs

[ClemFandango]

19 hours ago, Danger-Mouse said:

Several US States have done so for marijuana. It has only been done at state level, technically under federal law it still remains illegal. My guess is the government is letting it play out and observing the effects, if the experiment fails they still have the option of clamping down at the federal level. Colorado was one of the first states to legalise it. They have released figures about the economic and criminal effects.

Others that either legalised or decriminalised it, for personal use  include, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Columbia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Equador, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, India, Jamaica, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Russia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, USA, Uruguay,  US Virgin Islands.

There are a few other countries that simply turn a blind eye to it's use like Thailand and Viet Nam.

Portugal have decriminalised everything. Quite a number of other countries now allow small quantities of drugs for "personal use".

Thanks. 

I notice in a lot of them drugs are legal to possess but not to sell, have they got licenced vendors?

[Danger-Mouse]

22 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

Thanks. 

I notice in a lot of them drugs are legal to possess but not to sell, have they got licenced vendors?

You're welcome.

No, this is the hazy side of decriminalisation. Netherlands for instance. It's legal to own a small amount, it's legal for the coffee shops to sell it, but the growers who sell it to the shops are breaking the law. The growers exploit the law somewhat by growing specific numbers of plants, I believe anything over 99 plants carries a very heavy sentence. I believe individuals can also grow something like 3 plants without any chance of prosecution.

Elsewhere I would imagine it's similar except most of the countries don't have the coffee shops. Presumably most people still buy from street dealers. But I don't really know the circumstances for each country.

Some interesting data from Colorado and Washington after 5 years of legalisation. https://news.lift.co/five-years-effects-legalization-colorado-washington-state/